| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13024 Registered: 12-2003  |
One of my biggest concerns as I've watched people find the gospel, receive Jesus as their Lord, and become baptized into the body of Christ after Adventism is this: a great many people gradually veer away from the gospel and become caught up in other "movements" or emphases that take them back into some sort of bondage...a "new-to-them" bondage, but bondage nonetheless. It's interesting; I don't see former Adventists all going the same direction, but some of the directions are troubling. Some go towards rigid hyper-Calvinism, causing them to become "brittle" and to lose their passion for the gospel and for evangelism, preaching doctrine and marginalizing those who don't see it their way. Some go deeply into the Pentecostal movement, seeking miracles and power and experiences, being driven by a supernatural "fix" for their personal pain. Some return to other brands of extreme legalism, keeping not just the Sabbath but also the feasts. Still others go to other gospels that resemble Adventism: religions in which the atonement is not complete when they accept Jesus, but they must keep themselves saved by penance, sacraments, confession to a priest, etc. Still others become lone rangers, fearing association with any church body whose details of doctrine they don't "buy". I've thought a lot about what draws people these directions. I don't have clear answers for it all...but I think there are some things I see. After Adventism many people look for a new "authority", someone to tell them how to know they are "right". A long tradition makes them feel they're in the real church. Others are driven by pain, I think, and desire to feel better and seek spiritual quick-fixes. I'd like your feedback...what has driven or guided you after Adventism? Where have you "landed" and why? What is it about embracing the Lord Jesus and His word as our ground of truth that seems harder to hang onto than veering off the gospel path? Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1301 Registered: 7-2004  |
We ended up in a church that: Consistently teaches the Gospel and emphasizes unmerited grace Believes in the inerrancy of Scripture Emphasizes the importance of God's Word Doesn't believe Sabbath transferred to Sunday Has a patient pastor that will listen and talk through our concerns Doesn't get caught up in every new book or program that comes out Stands by their doctrinal beliefs, but does not believe that this makes them more God's true church than other believers. Isn't perfect That church happens to be Lutheran (LCMS). I'm not denominational-centric in that I don't think every one needs to become Lutheran or try out a Lutheran church. But I think it is a valuable option that some formers might not think about because it seems "too Catholic". Don't confuse the looks with the theology. (Message edited by Ric_b on October 08, 2011) | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 167 Registered: 5-2011 |
I am currently going to a church called Harvest Christian Fellowship. A church that has it's roots in Methodistism, but due to antislavery movement branched into a Wesleyan movement. I love it there. The pastor is totally gospel focused and they give the Holy Spirit the freedom to work His work with each person. They do not limit God to the natural but give God the freedom to be God. It's the place for me for right now and I just love it there. lynn | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1657 Registered: 12-2007  |
I have not yet "landed" but I am enjoying the freedom and the understanding I am gaining on the ride  | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 2069 Registered: 10-2002  |
I wrote a comment to some friends recently that might dovetail into this: I would argue that the "systemization" of SDA is probably the most difficult thing to shake when leaving Adventism. Being raised inside of it, it's natural for us to unconsciously crave and find rest in a system when we come out. And so many of us get into hyper-Calvinism, some into Charismaticism, often into dispensationalism or political conservativism, etc. For many it then becomes a new "fortress" to defend, often syncretized with the gospel so that the new structure is seen as part of the gospel, or at least a *partner* with the gospel. And then it's hard to see how anyone can *not* believe as we do. Etc. I believe one of the biggest fruits of coming from this systematization (and then moving unconsicously into a new one--whether a formal system or a personal one) is visible in our reactions to when people speak an error. If we have to jump up and object and tell them the correct information, I think we need some more rehab! (lol) Really, because the way that SDA worked was based on dissemination of correct information ("truth"), and the way to share truth with others was to supply the correct information to them, to hand them the answer (and then assume it was "in their hands" to accept or reject). But it's interesting to read about Jesus because He didn't do that a lot of the time. He would often ask a question and leave it hanging. He didn't raise His voice in objection every time someone spoke an error. And sometimes He just bypassed their attempts to draw Him out completely. Above all, He was interested in the heart of the person He was talking to more than winning the argument, or correcting every misconception that the person had. You could say He showed a sort of spiritual "triage" where He prioritized the person's heart, their rest in Him, and generally handled other issues directly if they were directly pertinent to those things, or else left them for later. (Or left them for His disciples to tend to later after He returned to heaven.) Probably the most subtle thing is to unconsciously systemize the gospel itself. Interaction with each other and "faith-building" that focuses on the correct specific points of information unfortunately encourages this habit (systemizing the gospel). And then, spending a great amount of our time "defending the gospel" (that is, defending the *points* of the gospel) also encourages this. Not to say that defense is wrong, but we transition very quickly from "learning to rest in the gospel" to "defending the gospel". I think we jump from the former to the latter too quickly, and miss a lot of healing in-between. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1305 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, SDA salvation is information-based. Part of this is due to the denial of the human spirit. To the SDA, our spirit is our mind, and spiritual things are in fact intellectual things. The way to avoid being fooled into following the anti-christ in the end-times, for the SDA, is based on knowing all the right facts about what will and won't happen. The way to avoid being fooled into following the anti-christ for a believer is to be a believer possessing the promise and the power of His indwelling Spirit. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1054 Registered: 2-2008  |
Colleen, As I look back at my experience in Adventism, I grew up with that "authority" you talked about. Adventism was right and all others, were being craftily deceived by Satan. So there was a couple of things that I had to deal with. One, not only was I told exactly what to believe, I was told that on my own, I wasn't "smart" enough to comprehend the Bible with my own understanding. The Bible was so "mysterious" and only EGW could define it in terms I could know that were right. On my own, Satan could easily deceive me, but since I had EGW, I could know, without a doubt, I had truth. Along with that, how could I trust or believe any teacher outside of Adventism? They could be easily deceived because they didn't have the "truth" that EGW was shown. Secondly, I was never taught to discern. Basically, things were the way they were. To follow our leaders was the right thing to do because on my own I could get it wrong. I never heard my parents discussing something they had read in the Bible. They read their quarterly and that was truth. It was never questioned. I was never told that God's Holy Spirit would guide me and lead me into truth. Thirdly, with the 10C's as "authority" in my house, why would we have to depend on Jesus? Jesus was just a safety net, my "get out of jail" card. The 10C's were tangible and my authority and Jesus wasn't. For me, when I left Adventism, I had no trust in any pastor or teacher. I questioned everything. I just don't take an answer anymore... I need answers with scripture to back it up. One of the churches I visited had quarterlies. I never went back to that church. For me, I didn't want a church that had a heirarchy of leaders that I would have to support in addition to the pastor and leaders of my church. I needed a church with no membership. I didn't want to be part of a church that had it all right... I wanted to be a part of a church that discussed and hashed it out and didn't just say "it was so." Your last question that you asked is HUGE: "What is it about embracing the Lord Jesus and His word as our ground of truth that seems harder to hang onto than veering off the gospel path?" Since my authority in Adventism was a person (EGW) and the 10C's (stone tablets) it was really difficult to just hold on to Jesus... to "embrace" Him. It was very hard to just let go and trust God. I had something tangible in Adventism (or so I thought I did) and to hold on to Jesus felt like I was holding on to gushy feelings. Knowing this, these past 2 years, God has taken me through a huge process of learning to trust Him. It was a lesson on learning to lean on Him, surrender to Him and trust that He is sovereign. I get it now. vivian | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1055 Registered: 2-2008 |
p.s. For me, learning to lean on God wasn't something I could read and learn about. Learning to embrace Him and trust Him came from God teaching me directly through life. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2192 Registered: 7-2007 |
Colleen, I've heard a pastor say that we're "born legalists." That sure seems to be the case! People seem to have a tendency to want to "DO" something. I myself need to be reminded over and over and over again that Jesus did it all! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13045 Registered: 12-2003 |
What great thoughts. Vivian, I like how you distinguished between "tangible" and "intangible". Very insightful. Asurprise, I believe that's true. People are born legalists. Colleen | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 153 Registered: 1-2011 |
I'm still in the process of 'landing'. We've visited a very nice non-demoninational church that we are considering joining, as well as several other churches that were a very clear 'no--don't go back there'. I'm grateful for visiting the 'no-don't go back there' churches because it helps me appreciate the churches that do preach the gospel and not legalism. But that said, I'm still kind of considering the next steps and haven't 'landed'. But I can't say that it has been a church that has 'guided' me after sdaism. It has been a little of everything, so to speak. This forum, going to a legalistic church, a comment by a co-worker, visiting sda's on sabbath and looking in with new eyes, a program on the radio, etc. These were things that might not even look like they could guide or help, but end up helping me along the way. And I agree with Vivian. Back in sdaism, we could hold onto the 10 c's or various written instructions and say 'OK, I'll do this'. When I realized that this was not what I needed to do anymore, it was like the carpet had been pulled out under me. I was grasping and grasping for something to hold on to. And that is when I realized--it was an instantenous thought that just knocked me on the head. I realized, 'Now I really badly NEEEEEEED the Holy Spirit to transform me, to guide, and make me brand new'. Then I realized the Holy Spirit wasn't just some fancy add-on, or a good thing to have, or optional, but I really needed God now. And that night, it was 3 am, I was on my knees and asking God to pour out the Holy Spirit and reside in my heart. I didn't have the law anymore to hang onto and live up to. I had been reading Galations esp. regarding the fruit of the Spirit that preceded that lightning bolt of a thought. That was the turning point for me. Prior to that, I was so struggling with the law, and understood it was 'God has given me grace, now I will obey the law out of thankfulness.' which then became a burden all over again. I was essentialy using the law to be self-sufficient in helping God to save me. As crazy as that sounds now. |
