| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1243 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do you think Steps to Christ is flawed? I am wondering what is left. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 436 Registered: 2-2010 |
God the Father is the one who draws us to the son. There are no "steps" to Christ. Had God not been the one to reveal Himself to us, we wouldn't even know Christ existed. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2011 |
I suppose one can find something "good" in almost anything if you try long enough~ In my opinion, everything 'egw' wrote comes from the same tainted 'pool'~(Even~ Steps to Christ)! Therefore, the only 'pool' I want to put even my 'toe' in now, is GOD's Truth, the Bible! The answer is "No"~there is "nothing left" of 'egw'~all of her 'writings,dreams, & visions' must go for one to make a fresh start following JESUS~ ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12880 Registered: 12-2003  |
Free is right; there are no steps to Christ. Jim, go back to John 3. There is only one way to Jesus: repent and believe in Him, accepting His finished work. When you believe, receiving His blood on your behalf, you are transferred by the Father from the domain of darkness to the kingdom of His beloved Son (Col 1:13). Then all that remains is our decision to live according to His promises, giving up our agnostic rationalizing and accepting Scripture alone. The book of Galatians, Romans 8...these are truth. Colleen | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1245 Registered: 5-2007 |
You said repent. What is your definition of repent. Since every other word I understood as a SDA has been redefined. What does repent mean? I am sure I have that one wrong as well. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 925 Registered: 5-2009 |
I'm up late as I fell asleep this afternoon and slept til 10:30, and I'd love to make a comment because I had a few copies of STC come into my possession recently. It sounds like such a benign Christian book, huh? Now, I did not re-read it, but I did check out the very ending of the book and was disturbed at the teaching of a book I once thought was so good: (Speaking of the redeemed going into heaven): "There their companions will not be the vile of earth, liars, idolators, the impure, and unbelieving; but they will associate with those WHO , HAVE OVERCOME SATAN, and through divine grace HAVE FORMED PERFECT CHARACTERS." She mixes this all up with statements about being redeemed from sin by Christ, but that even makes her poisonous statements worse IMO because it tricks your mind into thinking she's telling you the gospel when she is not. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12886 Registered: 12-2003 |
Exactly, Nowisee. You are so right! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1601 Registered: 7-2003  |
Jim, The word that the our English Bibles translate as "repent" is "metanoeo" in the original Greek. The meaning of the word is literally "to change one's mind". So as this pertains to the experience of salvation, we have a "renewing of [our] mind" (Romans 12:2) and are given "the mind of Christ" (I Cor. 2:16). This means that much changes in our thinking. Here are just a few things of which we repent: 1. We go from thinking we're basically a "good" person to understanding and agreeing with God that we are depraved to the very core. 2. We go from thinking that we can somehow make ourselves acceptable to a Holy God to realizing that we are creatures of wrath without even a shred of hope in anything we do. 3. We go from relying on human effort to completely depending on the work of Christ. 4. We go from approving of sin to agreeing with God that all sins are offensive. 5. We go from being okay with sin or rationalizing sin our lives to desiring to have every last vestige of sin eradicated from our lives. 6. We go from accepting the direction of our life to agreeing with God that we are headed in the wrong direction and to deeply desiring to make an about face on the road of life and be completely surrendered to him. Jim, what I get from the book of Romans is that we are so depraved that we can't change our minds about any of this on our own. This is the work of God in us. Repentance is a gracious gift of God. Chris | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1254 Registered: 5-2007 |
Chris, Thank you, it means a lot. "To change one's mind" I like that. In Line item #5. How does that work and not lead back into legalism? How do you determine what sin actually is and what you are accountable to? How do you live with your own defects.? Where is your peace? Jim | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1193 Registered: 7-2004  |
To answer "How do you live with your own defects?": God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them 2 Corinthians 5:19 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness Romans 4:5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1 My peace is that because of Jesus' perfect life and my faith in Him for this, my sins are not counted against me and instead I am seen by God as perfect, having the righteousness of Jesus. Any observable changes in my life will happen as a fruit of the Holy Spirit changing my heart, and will have no bearing on salvation. Otherwise, if salvation could be gained or maintained by our "law-keeping," trying, or any efforts, it would be a wage and we would have something to boast about. (Message edited by Raven on August 26, 2011) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12893 Registered: 12-2003 |
Raven, excellent point. Jim, we have to admit that we simply will never get to the point that every last vestige of sin is eradicated from our lives. Never--this side of the resurrection. This fact is why we must trust the blood of Jesus. God credits Jesus' righteousness to us. This is not "imparted" righteousness that gives us the power to become good. Our sanctification has absolutely nothing at all to do with our being accepted by God, now or in the future--as Raven said so well above. We only need Jesus. Our behavior doesn't count toward salvation. It neither helps us get it or maintain it. We receive salvation when we place our entire faith and hope in the Lord Jesus. Apart from Him, without believing in Him as ALL we need, we are doomed, no matter how well we discipline the sins out of our lives. As our pastor once said, the most dangerous person is a moral man who doesn't need Christ. Our moral behavior counts for NOTHING. Only being born of the Spirit brings us life. That's why we need Jesus. Without Him, God cannot save us. If we are born of the Spirit and trusting in Jesus' finished work, we are saved. Period. Colleen | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2011 |
As long as we live in these mortal bodies we will sin at one point or another. I am grateful that God understands and has provided us with His righteousness. He knows that we can't do it and we need to always remember that we can't either this side of the resurrection. As I sit here typing this I can hear this woman who is a member of the local SDA church I used to belong to saying "In the time of trouble we will have to live without Jesus' mediation". I realize now that statement is completely ignorant and arrogant. How arrogant to think that you could live thru a horrific time like that without Jesus! wow! I am so thankful that Jesus promised us that He would never leave us nor forsake us. I will always need Him....always. lynn | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1602 Registered: 7-2003 |
Jim its the desire that changes. As Colleen said, sin will not be eradicated until glorification. But the point is, we're no longer okay with sin in our lives and now want to be confirmed to Christ in every way. We long for the day when sin is eradicated. It's a change in mind and desire and it's all a sovereign work of God. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1261 Registered: 5-2007 |
Everyone, I understand what you are saying and I want to accept it as plainly as Raven pointed out in Romans 4:5. This is the hope we have in Christ. Now then, how do I hold this truth and then respond to 1John 3: 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. J: This is probably where the SDA base their idea that we must be prepared and ready, where they go back to law as a mirror and where they look at themselves to see if anything is still out of place. They measure their proof by their sinlessness. Again, Even here , we go in circles. Because in this same book it says: Chap 1: 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. The same thing happens in Romans. Grace is presented, then snatched back in qualified works. Common sense tells me that the directuon of the life is growing in grace. But to see things that refer to commands , law, (sin is lawlessness) only continualy confuse me. Because I am seeing objectives to be reached rather than a state of peace. When law or even an inferance to law is brought forth, I am right back to doubts about Sabbath. Look at the book of James. If you break one, you break all. If I break the 4th , I break all. The interlocks between the scriptures keep me in circles. I have marked Bibles. Trying to highlight the promises. But I also have the other ones marked. Trying to bring them together and give myself permission to end the law, stop looking at my own sins/flaws etc is exhausting and profoundly frustrating. Because I am trying to hold all the scriptures as valid. But for this to work, it seems I have to cancel out , ignore or invalidate half of them in order to embrace the others. | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-1999 |
Hi, Jim! I understand your confusion. I think the problem you are having resides in understanding the difference between salvation issues and growing in Grace issues. Since the work of the cross, sin is no longer an issue. The sins of the entire world, believer and unbeliever were judged on the cross. Unbelievers will not go to hell because of sin...they will go to hell because of their unbelief. Believers will not go to heaven because of their lack of sin but because of their belief in Christ. Our sins or lack of sins have nothing to do with going to heaven or hell. Post salvation the sins of the believer close the door on our relationship with Christ--not on our salvation. Let me see if I can give you an analogy that will help. We are born with a control center for our thoughts, actions....a frame of reference for everything do, say, think, etc... This control center is the soul. When we are born again, we become spiritually alive, we are given a spirit, a new control center is erected so Christ can live in us--this is what makes us a "new man". Instead of only having the "wordly frame of reference" control center (soul) we were born with we now have the "new man frame of reference" control center (spirit). We can choose moment by moment, day by day which control center we are going to "live in". When we sin...we automatically are ejected from the spiritually alive control center to the worldly control center. The one contains the thinking of Christ--Godly viewpoint...the other contains the thinking of man--human viewpoint. The way back into the spiritual control center is by means of repentence (a changing of the mind) I John 1:9, "When we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". No matter what we do in life and who it may involve any sin we commit is a sin against God and all we have to do to re-enter the relationship is to name our sin. It's all about grace--from first to last!!! | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 759 Registered: 11-2007 |
There is one step to Christ. We come to Him. Period. For some it is a big step. For others it is a pretty small step. If you have a book that teaches there are steps to Christ...get rid of it immediately. It is not teaching truth. Surfy |
