| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2045 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'd like to start this thread by naming something that Ellen White taught that contradicts the Bible. First of all, I'd like to mention that Ellen White says Jesus DID NOT go into the Most Holy Place in Heaven until 1844. (see "Early Writings" in the chapter called; "The Open and the Shut Door," 1st paragraph - page 42 in the little paper back version I have.) The Bible says that Jesus went there ALREADY. (see Hebrews 6:19-20; Hebrews 9:2,25 and Hebrews 10:12 where it says that Jesus "sat down at the right hand of God." There isn't any place holier than where God is! What about the rest of you? What other things did Ellen White get wrong? | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2011 |
She thought that people would have to give up meat in order to be saved. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 813 Registered: 1-2007 |
She teaches us to not believe we are saved. Jesus certainly says differently. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 814 Registered: 1-2007 |
She also teaches we will not have a mediator during the end times. Jesus tells us he will never leave us. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3772 Registered: 10-2004  |
I think this thread would be a lot easier and shorter if it was "What did Ellen White get right?"  Jeremy | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2565 Registered: 5-2007  |
Ellen references Psalm 40:8 in support of her belief that we must obey the Mosaic Law to be saved. Yet, as you read the whole psalm, you find that King David is saying the very opposite. Fearless Phil | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2048 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes, Jeremy; if this thread was about what EGW got right, it would be short!  Here's a quote by Ellen White in a book called: "Spirit of Prophecy volumn 1." [I didn't even know there was a book by this name when I was an SDA!] This quote is in the first chapter (about pg. 17 in the book I have), in the second paragraph. This quote very clearly shows that she believed that Jesus was "promoted" to equality with the Father. quote: "The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence." The third paragraph says how jealous Satan was as a result... quote: "Satan was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ. Yet when all the angels bowed to Jesus to acknowledge his supremacy and high authority and rightful rule, Satan bowed with them; but his heart was filled with envy and hatred. Christ had been taken into the special counsel of God in regard to his plans, while Satan was unacquainted with them." Ellen White goes on to say how Satan was angrily wondering why Jesus was honored before himself. This definitely contradicts the Bible because the angels would definitely have known from the beginning that Jesus was equal to the Father and that he was equally God and that He had equal authority with the Father from eternity. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1584 Registered: 12-2007  |
I think I asked quite a while ago,,, or maybe it was on Facebook... but never got an answer to my question. Of all the "prophecies" EGW made, were there ANY that actually came true ? As many things as she predicted you would think the odds would be with her to get at least something right, but I can't think of a single one. I realize only ONE WRONG is enough to prove her a false prophet,, but you would think she would have gotten at least one thing right. ??? Francie | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1585 Registered: 12-2007 |
I think I will send a FB message and ask my former pastor who is SDA if he can tell me of a correct prediction.... I think she did say something at one time about in the end times many would "turn away from the truth" but cant take that one either since she said they would "turn away" instead of FIND it ! Francie | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1586 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ok, I sent it. Now to wait and see if I hear back or not. "[Pastor], I am not asking this to be sarcastic, but because I would really like to know. Of all the predictions that Ellen White made over the years did any actually come true ? I realize that according to the Bible all it takes is ONE wrong one to prove her a false prophet, and I know there were many many things she got wrong,, but I was thinking that out of all the predictions she made, the odds should be in her favor of getting at least ONE thing correct. I haven't been able to find it. If you know of any would you please share ?" (Message edited by admin on August 25, 2011) | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1589 Registered: 12-2007 |
I heard back ! This is what he said . "I will try and send you a message tomorrow :-)" So maybe there is something...... but apparently he couldn't think of one just off the top of his head. Should be interesting to see what EGW actually did get right. Francie | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1591 Registered: 12-2007 |
I havent heard back yet, but am just hoping he does not come back with an explanation that "she never claimed to be a prophet".... if he does.... I will just tell him that in that case, she, and her writings should not be used and referred to as "the spirit of prophecy". But I am getting ahead of myself... will wait and see what he comes up with. Francie | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2011 |
~ "What did Ellen White get wrong?" I ask~"What did ellen white get RIGHT?" When I look at the question this way~ the most acceptable answer is simply~ Nothing! ~mj~ | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1595 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ok, I heard back from my former pastor a couple hours ago... this is what he said : "Hi Francie, I've been thinking about your question, and really don't know how to answer it. As I've mentioned before in our conversations, the validity of Ellen White is just not a big deal to me either way. I love some of her writings, and yet, I believe she has been truly abused and misused by our church. As someone who has had words twisted around, I know this is not fun. The only time I really came across an issue here was when I got married and the church here in the US said I could not use rings in the ceremony. In England we had not come across this... this was just not an issue. So I read up, and did some research which took a long time as she wrote a LOT. And discovered that this was not her position at all. So I just leave it alone... perhaps it is a bigger deal than I make it, and I respect those on both sides who feel called to defend or attack as needed. It's just not my thing, and until I find a perfect church, I'm quite comfortable sticking with this one. For there is much I like and feel blessed and supported by. I find Ellen White a person before her time, with wisdom, gentleness... but this is only reading source material. I can't read compilations, they make me edgy and even mad sometimes. I wish we had never had the idea to take random material to various people and compile it. So I suspect if I came up with what works for me, it could easily be knocked down, so I'm going to leave specifics out for now. I hope you understand. So until my life allows me to be an expert on everything, I'll keep my mouth closed on the things I am not! Feel blessed today..." | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1596 Registered: 12-2007 |
Help ! I am writing a response back to him and this is what I have so far.... before I send it I would really appreciate the opinions of my FAF friends. Is it ok as is or is there anything I should delete, add, change ? Personally, after re reading his letter, I cant help but be saddened because I feel it is one HUGE cop out. Don't think about it dont study into it and you dont have to make a decision or have an opinion.  anyway, this is what I have so far. "Hi [Pastor] Thank you for getting back to me. Yes I also know from experience what it is like to have your words "twisted" and I agree it is NOT fun. And while I personally share your opinion that Ellen White is not relevant. (or at least should not be). The problem is that she IS VERY relevant to a large portion of the SDA denomination. Apparently you do not feel called to deal with issues concerning EGW, but those issues are still there. The problem of what to do with EGW does not go away because we choose to ignore, or just not deal with it. I wish it were that easy. And I completely AGREE that there is certainly is no such thing as a "perfect" church. As a friend said not long ago ' if there were a "perfect" church, it would cease to be perfect as soon as I entered the door'. I thank God for His Amazing Grace. Even though there is no "perfect" church I feel it is important for the salvation of souls , when entering ANY church to be able to hear God's word and have "Bible studies" that are TRULY "BIBLE" studies , going through the Bible book by book, chapter by chapter and line by line and looking for what God is revealing in His word and not searching to find "proof texts" to defend what we have been taught as a denomination. As another friend says "To speak where the Bible speaks and to remain silent where the Bible is silent" The Bible certainly DOES "speak" about those who are claimed to be "Prophets". I know the argument that Ellen never "claimed" to be a "prophet", but we also know that though she may not have made the claim with those words.... she DID say that her work was "much more" than that of a prophet. And the church certainly does claim prophet status for her. Otherwise she and her writings would not be referred to as "The spirit of prophecy". It cant be both ways.... either she is accepted as a prophet or she is not. If she is NOT then her writings should be discarded and go with ONLY the Bible. If she IS then openly claim her as such instead of hiding her in a closet and bringing her out bit by bit when she is needed to "prove" a point. [Pastor], I do not write to you or send you links in order to pester you in some way. I do so only because I care. I love the PEOPLE of the SDA denomination. I do NOT love the deception in a lot of the teachings. I worry about you and I worry about the future of your precious children. I fear for their very souls and for the souls of all those who are being taught to believe that the Adventist doctrines are in line with God's word. You have no idea how much I have prayed for my dear brothers and sisters in the Adventist churches. How I have prayed for God to remove the veil that prevents them from seeing Gods truth. But I know that there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. And it breaks my heart. May God draw close to you and yours and bless you greatly Francie " (Message edited by admin on August 25, 2011) | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 927 Registered: 5-2009 |
Wow, Francie! First, she absolutely does teach against wedding rings! "Not one penny should be spent on a circlet of gold..." I followed this to a T when pregnant with both my children & very probably looked like an unmarried "hippie" (long hair, granny dresses in the 70's). Second, no one needs to 'twist' her words, they are pretty condemning and twisted just as they are. Third, I just don't get someone being a pastor of a church where he does not see the relevance of one of their fundamental beliefs/their SOP! Isn't that being 'double-minded'...how does he explain that one to himself? If he had to choose between her clear sayings (a sin of pride to say you're saved, standing in the sight of a holy God without a mediator, etc) and what the Bible teaches in these examples, WHICH one would he choose?? Thanks for an interesting thread! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 928 Registered: 5-2009 |
Oh, surprise, here's something that she taught in EW that i'm pretty sure is wrong ....that God's angel gave her a green cord that she could stretch out when she wanted to talk to Jesus. Francie, what does this pastor have to say about the green cord? It's right in Early Writings! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2905 Registered: 8-2004  |
Yes, she DID teach against wedding rings . . . and then changed her mind when it was her daughter-in-law to be who wanted one (Willie's second wife). Well, actually, it was her daughter in law's father who insisted that a wedding ring be used - because of the 20 year age difference between Willie and her, and the fact that they traveled often together. Her father didn't want people thinking they were traveling together unmarried. According to the story I read, the wedding ring was used for awhile, but once the community got to know her as Willie White's wife she quit wearing it (except perhaps when they were traveling?) | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2007 |
His response or lack thereof sounds just like a politician's answer to a question. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1597 Registered: 12-2007 |
Ok, I am waiting and hoping for more responses... I have not sent the letter to him yet, because I am hoping to get more ideas from those of you here to include. I will definitely let him know about the wedding ring thing, and a few other things you brought to my mind. Please keep the thoughts coming. I am hoping to send to him in the next couple of days. Francie | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2011 |
~HI~Francie~ If all the pastor had to give you was a story about his wedding rings in regards to 'egw' & the rest of the 'writings' & the church he is comfortable with~tells me you have a REAL Challenge on your hands! If I were you I would decide what my major goal is & then research that in the archives of 'Proclamation Magazine'! and go from there with prayer~ I should have first said~Ask GOD if He even wants you to take on this challenge with this pastor at this time~ ~Cheering you on with whatever you decide~! ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3780 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here is the quote from EGW on wedding rings:
(You can read the story of Willie and his wife's wedding ring starting here: http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=4BIO&lang=en&pagenumber=196) She also wrote:
She sure didn't like marriage very much! (I think God had something to say about that, in 1 Timothy 4.) Jeremy | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 104 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Jeremy~ Oh, how the above statement brings back 'memories'~ this was repeated to me so many times when I was young ~ how many couples would stand at the alter with an sda minister and quietly slip on "circlets of gold"? more than we can count~ when I taught in an sda school I remember taking off my "circlet of gold" in the car before I went on campus~ then one day when I was feeling especially brave I left it on my finger~the principal called me into his office after the school day (which I knew he would do) & demanded an explanation~ which I gave him & I continued to wear my wedding ring for several years longer, teaching at this school~the principal of this school, however, was "called" to a school far, far away~~~because there were charges made against him of suspicions that he was, "liking the little girl students too much"! The parents were "on to him" & wanted him gone~~~! This incident happened a long time ago at a well known school in California~ I reread this post & see that I was rambling, sorry about that~but these things that happen to you, the memories never go away~ ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2058 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ellen White said that no one should say that they are saved, but here are some verses that say otherwise! "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8,9 "...Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works..." 2nd Timothy 1:9 (Notice the past tense!) "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," Titus 3:5 | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 168 Registered: 7-2005 |
mj, Amazing that the principal was just moved to another school with his problem of "liking the little girl students too much". I have heard of some instances of this as well. It is just mind-blowing that this was done, I think pretty routinely, in the past. I hope that has changed at least. Carol | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Carol~ This incident happened about 25 years ago as I recall & the sda denomination was not in the habit of airing their 'dirty laundry' in public! I personally know of other incidents (back-in-the-day)where people in leadership positions that committed 'indiscretions' were "called" to work in places 'far, far away'~ it is really sickening~The denomination may still be doing this for all I know~"mores-the-pity"~ ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 344 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jeremy @3780 re wedding ring quote - When I was in college I was serious with a theology major who asked me if I wanted to wear a wedding ring when we married? (did not marry him). I said 'yes, but I can't.' He asked why not? I said because you are going to be a minister. He said SO? I said egw says not! He said where? We were in the library at a table facing the red books so we looked it up. As we read it the quote was: "Not one penny should be spent on a circlet of gold THAT COULD BE PUT TO BETTER USE." We looked at each other & said 'it's stewardship not an absolute no.' I never owned the book, but quoted it to people over the years. Finally 30 years later I thought I should be able to quote book, & page. I found the book & it read as you posted. I felt crazy for awhile. But I knew what I had seen with my own eyes, in a very sincere & personal situation & desire to serve & please God, surrendering my own desires to His will. (egw = His will at that time to me. Horrific now) Then I realized that the denom had done what they always do: edited, dropped, quietly changed things. That was part of my awakening & questioning, & LEAVING. I am not crazy. They are evil & devious. J9 | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 931 Registered: 5-2009 |
1John, when I quickly read your post, I thought you had gotten the letters for "denom" out of sequence! Oh, to have access right now to a volume of the testimonies!! I'd love to share some of EGW's "gentleness" with this pastor! I remember some of her "gentle" statements to Canright and Ballenger, too! She could be scathing. |
