| Author | Message | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 236 Registered: 8-2010  |
I noticed that when discussing the topic of Ellen G. White I am often told the following perhpas you have heard variants of these too- "Well she wrote some good things too." "You should be the judge and understand what to ignore." "She was human and like the prophets in the Bible made mistakes." Most of all I hear this proof-text used in an attempt to justify EGW's falsehoods and truths she borrowed from other sources-- "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;" 1 Thessalonians 5 (NASB) If that is true then I should also see Seventh-day Adventist's quoiting Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, Mary Baker Eddy, Mohammed to support their doctrine--well. . . perhaps we will. Why not, I assume each of these writers have written some "good" things along with their false teachings, just like Ellen G White, therefore it's OK to keep those items and discard the rest. If you allow the Scriptures to finish what it was saying and not simply proof-text our (SDA) desired preconceptions Scripture will close the loop and is clear--even just including the beginning and ending of the thought-- "Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil." In what instances would you call a known liar as your character witness? In what instance would you allow a wife-beater to date your sister? In what case would you allow a pedophile to watch your children? Somewhere, these people have some type of "good" in them and Adventist rationalization would say that is the part we should embrace, as if in the world or Spiritual matters we "pious" to suspend God given discernment! Do you Think these are extreme and cases and biased examples? Then in what cases would you entrust a marginally truthful prophet to advise you on the ways of God that have direct effect on YOUR eternal life? Scripture is precise in saying what it does if you let it finish what is says, "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil." 2 Corinthians 6 beginning in verse 14, Ephesians 5 and 1 John 1 seem equally clear. Throw that woman (i.e., Ellen G White) OUT! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12844 Registered: 12-2003  |
Thank you, Wiredog! I agree completely. If she was a false prophet, if even some of what she said was wrong (when she clearly stated that either all of what she wrote or none of it was from God), how, then can people retain any of it? God doesn't give mixed messages. We have no business compromising ourselves by hanging on, even partially, to someone who was actually a false prophet. Colleen | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2011  |
Excellent points Wiredog. This post is a keeper. Even the 'good things' Ellen White wrote about Jesus are coloured by a false understanding of the gospel. For what it's worth I'll share a bit from my experience. I have read (and sadly believed for a while) the writings of other devout Christians who supposedly received messages from Jesus Christ, like James E Padgett (1852-1923) and his friend Dr Daniel Samuels (central to the ‘messages’ they received were the importance of ‘new birth’ in the Christian life and of receiving ‘divine love’ into the heart); Edgar Casey(1877 – 1945) another devout yet deceived Christian, he was an end times prophet and healer. There were many others (I can't remember all the names now, many who have received messages from a counterfeit Jesus from the 1800’s on). Many sincere Christians have supposedly received beautiful messages from 'Jesus Christ'. I have learned that just because someone writes 'good things' about Jesus and 'uplifts Christ' it does not make them a true prophet! This is the wrong ‘sign’ Adventist friends. Ellen White's 'frowning Jesus', the imagery in some of her frightening visions, the repeated imagery of narrow staircases, communication with her dead husband (featuring the hallmarks of a demonic dream visitation), the sadness she often expressed when coming back to 'this dark world'; the illness and weakness she suffered between revelations; are features common to spiritualism [the irony is cruel]. Not to mention Ellen White's failed prophecies, her fascination with uninspired writings (apochrypha) and contradictions of plain Scripture). The 'gospel' of a false prophet sounds authentic. Please read, read, read the Bible, God's true message to humanity. Don't cloud the Bible with the thoughts of 'other prophets' and teachers. Read the Bible. It's the only way to discern God's voice. (Message edited by Kelleigh on August 15, 2011) (Message edited by Kelleigh on August 15, 2011) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1968 Registered: 6-2006  |
I had a discussion with my hubby about this just yesterday. I explained that EGW stated that when a person gets to judgement, they will have to stand before God without a mediator. My hubby looked at me like I was crazy. "I've never heard that in my life - she didn't say that". So I looked it up and sure enough it was in "The Great Controversy". Immediately hubby's defence mechanism switches flip on and he defends her saying "well, she also wrote that Jesus is our mediator, and he will never leave us." My answer to that was "She can't even agree with herself! How can you trust anyone like that, let alone someone who is called a prophet?" He just laughed because he knew he was stumped. He admits that while he doesn't believe in a lot of the SDA doctrines, he still has the mental tapes playing over and over. Until he gets the nerve to really take a good look at EGW and the church these "tapes" will continue to play. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12854 Registered: 12-2003 |
Leigh Anne, I'm going to put a note here on my monitor to pray for your husband. He's afraid to look, and I just now, reading your post, felt a rush of concern for him. He's been "not going there" for a long time even while he goes to church sometimes with you. I believe he's in a spiritual conflict, and I'm going to ask God to put him on my mind when I should pray. He's living in the tension of his birth family on one side and your Christianity on the other...but he's not letting himself "know" that the issue isn't loyalty to people. It's truth or not-truth; reality or deception. Love, Colleen PS--and Kelleigh, I totally agree with your post above. I believe EGW was not simply "not a prophet" but a very real false prophet. She received messages from her "familiar spirit" who she called the handsome young man who guided her dreams. We watched a documentary on John Harvey and William Keith Kellogg on Netflix a couple of days ago. It was very interesting; a grandson of W.K. Kellogg (it was WK, not John Harvey, who invented and became wealthy from corn flakes) spoke a few times on the documentary. He looked to be in his 80's but was very sharp and articulate. He said that when John Harvey was building the fame and mission of the Battle Creek Sanitarium, he would speak to EGW when she was in her "trance state" and suggest health ideas to her. When she would come out of her trances, she would announce that God had given her a vision, and she would share her new revelations...which had been suggested to her by JHK while she was in a trance state. So John Harvey Kellogg used EGW in the earlier days for his own endorsement and success. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1969 Registered: 6-2006 |
Coleen, thanks! We can always use your prayers. It was a good conversation as it was on our way to church Sunday morning. He doesn't share those kinds of thoughts with me often. For one I know it's too uncomfortable for him, but he also knows I will take the cue as an open door and barge right in with as much information as I can squeeze in before he changes the subject, LOL! The good news is that he comes with us about 3 weeks a month now. He's certainly in a spiritual limbo, but little by little I can see the bad doctrines are getting chipped away, albeit very sloooowly. Thanks again for the prayers!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2011 |
Colleen, what was the name of that documentary on Netflix? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9375 Registered: 3-2004  |
Leigh Anne, I will pray special for your husband also. I just stuck a note on my computer to remind me. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12861 Registered: 12-2003 |
Starlabs, neither of us can remember for sure! Richard did a search on Netflix for "Adventist", and that was one that came up. It was not done by Adventists, but for sure the documentary mentioned them and named EGW. Richard said he thinks it was the only one on Kellogg that came up. Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2896 Registered: 8-2004  |
Would it be "The Kellogg Brothers: Cornflake Kings"? | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 241 Registered: 8-2010 |
LOL I know this is not a thread about Movies on Seventh-day Adventist but I did a search for "Adventist" on netflix and this one came up-- http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/The_Nostradamus_Kid/70114839?trkid=2361637 Any one see this one? | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2011 |
“Dr. John Harvey would talk with Ellen in these trace situations and implant his ideas for diet therapy in her mind and as she recovered to her normal condition they came out as pronouncements from on high and became part of the church doctrine.” -Norm Williamson, Jr., Grandson of W.K Kellogg (2005). Biography. “The Kellogg Brothers: Corn Flake Kings.” United States: A&E Home Video. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2897 Registered: 8-2004 |
Wiredog, no I didn't watch that one (Nostradamus Kid), but I did read up about it. It sounds like an interesting movie, but too raunchy for my tastes. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12864 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, Tfelmon. You've got the quote! Colleen | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 246 Registered: 8-2010 |
Helovesme2, Yes neither have I. I just got a chuckle when the word "Adventist" was searched on netflix and that's what comes up. I guess, "Any Publicity is GOOD publicity!" (Message edited by wiredog on August 17, 2011) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2898 Registered: 8-2004 |
It is about an Adventist, after all. The kid who is the main character was raised Adventist. The movie tells the story of him turning from it and some of his reasons - if the synopsis I read is at all accurate. And if you want a more 'positive' movie with an SDA worldview, try Secret of the Cave. It is also on netflix. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 810 Registered: 1-2007 |
This morning I was reading Exekiel 12 and verse 22 hit the nail on the head about egw false visions. Ezeliel 12:22ff: The days go by and every vision comes to nothing? (NIV). I also read chapter 13 and it is really powerful about false prophets. I kind of remember reading this and sluffing it off as pertaining to other christian churches. | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 77 Registered: 5-2011 |
Ya and how about this one in 2 Thess. 2:9-12? I used to see this passage referring to people who refused to accept the "sabbath truth". LOL!!! "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 253 Registered: 8-2010 |
I posted this on the the facebook group since it struck me that the EGW stuff is the yeast of Seventh-day Adventism. Often 1 Thessalonians 5, examine everything and hold onto that which is good is the SDA proof-text that gives them license to ignore EGW fables but pick and keep the parts that agree with them. I was reading Mark 8 this morning and what caught my attention was Jesus' reference to leaven of the Pharisees and Herodians. Many of us were fed EGW and her fables in little parts as we took in Christianity (i.e., the leaven) since our youth. This leaven started to spread and corrupted much of what we learned so that we have to scrutinize what we recall and "know" is in Scripture. Perhaps that is good since we no longer take what is IN our Bible for granted--unlike how we used to incorrectly brag as Adventists, that "we [believed] were the most Biblical" denomination without checking the doctrines. It may be that former-Adventists are the least likely to accept anyone's quote from Scripture at face value without first examining it for ourselves. I like how Apostle Paul said in in Galatians 5 specifically verses 9-10. "This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough! I am trusting the Lord to keep you from believing false teachings. God will judge that person, whoever he is, who has been confusing you." It is sad to me to now see so many of them stumbling around in the dark. EGW is definitely the leaven of the Seventh-day Adventist church, so much so that their adults cannot discern what is the real bread and what is dope. | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2011 |
Wiredog, what you wrote is very true. I haven't been out of the SDA system for very long but I am already noticing how much of my perspective is very leavened with EGW teachings. Right now the teaching that I am dealing with in my life is the "Great Controversy theme". I know that it is a false perspective to what is going on but I still find myself reverting back to that thinking in rationalizing current events/circumstances. At least now I realize what I am doing....but man I am having a heck of a time getting rid of that mindset!! Yes, EGW is definitely the "yeast" of SDAism!! lynn | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 926 Registered: 5-2009 |
Great, great discussion. We sure were taught a "contaminated" view of Christianity. For any of you that have not done so, please read the interview of John Harvey Kellogg (he had stenographers take the whole thing down) when men from the church came to "reason with him" before he was kicked out. Gives very fascinating details about EGW and how things worked. An eye-opener, What in the world were we in???? Kelleigh, thank you so much for pointing out all the creepy stuff in her visions/dreams...those narrow stairways (which BTW are illustrated in the children's book 'The Green Cord') give me the willies. Her stuff is very dark...I could not see that it was dark when I was in it, but now the darkness is so apparent and obvious. |
