| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12856
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 12:49 pm: |     |
Praise God, Redeemed!
Colleen |
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt
Post Number: 338
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 1:54 pm: | |
@Delina - I found another 'Remember' in Exodus 13:3 at the Passover as Moses was instructing the people what to do he said "Remember this day. . ."
It can't refer back to anything else because this was the first time for it, the actual event.
This helped break down what I was taught.
Welcome Redeemed!
J9 |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7448
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 2:37 pm: | |
Welcome redeemed. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2893
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 2:48 pm: | |
 Yes. Welcome Redeemed. We look forward to getting to know you! |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2031
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 5:43 pm: | |
Welcome to the forum, Redeemed!
(Of course God would say "remember" when He wrote the Ten Commandments because He had just given the Sabbath to Israel along with the manna just weeks before He wrote it on stone. Exodus 16)
(Message edited by Asurprise on August 16, 2011) |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2032
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 5:56 pm: | |
Of course the Ten Commandments are the covenant given to Israel (Deuteronomy 4:13) and not their forefathers (Deuteronomy 5:2,3) and now it's obsolete (Hebrews 8:13) because Jesus brought in a whole new covenant! (Hebrews 9:15-17) |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 9:02 pm: | |
Welcome Redeemed
So nice to have you here .
Francie |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 2:50 pm: | |
Welcome Redeemed.
Good to fellowship with you.
Jim |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1228
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 3:02 pm: | |
ASuprise,
I do not normally use the AMP version, but it more or less brings out some of the pretense of what I am trying to explore:
1 John 3:6-9
Contrast this with Colleen's expression.
"None of us ever lives really "moral" lives because we have sinful flesh. When we are born again God credits us with Jesus. Everything Jesus is, God writes in our ledger, and He cancels all our moral debt...even if we continue to commit sins. But if we are born again, God's Spirit never leaves us, and we live in the undeserved reality of being credited with the actual life and person and righteousness of Jesus. We are hidden in Him. "
Amplified Bible (AMP)
6No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains [a]in communion with and in obedience to Him--deliberately, knowingly, and [b]habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].
7[c]Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.
8[But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
9No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [d]habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.
Then I go to River's quotes from Romans 7.
Then yours:
As River and Colleen pointed out, Christians still sin, though they have been saved. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't say that Christians have been saved (Ephesians 2:8-10); and have eternal life (1st John 5:11-13.)
So, the stumbling for me is the question of once saved always saved and the definition of being grafted back out. There seems to be conditional qualifiers. These tend to get back to suggesting that if , if and if, then maybe you were never in the Spirit , never saved.
The Bible seems to suggest to me that people will be surprised they are lost. Weeping and gnashing of teeth.
How do we KNOW we have The Spirit? By our actions? Our confession of faith?
Where is the reflective assurance found in the midst of all these qualifiers? |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1229
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 3:16 pm: | |
One other circle back point.
In view of John 3:6-9
What about sins of addiction? I mean this in the broadest sense. These are examples of life long habits or problems peopel have that are intrinsically evil of they defile the body or harm one's health.
What about he sins of doubt, fear ,anxiety, agitation, fretting , worry, stress, type A agression, OCD, etc....
All are forms of habitual, practicing sin.
Set free in Christ from the condemnation of sin.
It is about that. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12867
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 5:55 pm: | |
Jim, we KNOW we have the Spirit when we repent of our sin and receive Jesus as our Savior and Lord. When we place our trust in Him because we finally realize we can't manage ourselves...we ARE born again. Ephesians 1:13-14 is an absolute promise of that.
We then must act on that. We thank God, we depend upon Him. Romans 8:14-16 says that the Spirit testifies with our spirits that we are children if God. He tells us Himself, through His Spirit in ours, that we are His. And then we have to act on these objective facts.
We thank Him; we pray that He will grow us; we offer ourselves as living sacrifices to Him. We internalize His word--without trying to over-think it. We take it in and ask Him to apply it in our lives..
Our bodies are still mortal; we have sinful flesh even though we're born again. But the Holy Spirit makes us aware of the things God is asking us to surrender and entrust to Him instead of defending or indulging ourselves. He changes us. It's not a check list. God's Spirit reveals to us how we're not trusting Him and brings us to accountability.
Colleen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1230
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 6:20 pm: | |
Hi Colleen,
I fear that I will be taken as being argumentaive or dense. Please know that I am not trying to be nonsensical in this.
I do grasp most of what is being expressed in these thoughts.
It distills down to a series of approaches and attitudes that outline the life pattern in grace.
You mention repent. Does that mean overcome as well? What about the bad habits of a life time that cannot be so easily (if ever) broken?
What about flaws that defy resolution?
Repent becomes yet another hurdle. Conditional qualifier.
"without trying to over think it"
It reminds me of something EGW said.
"a supposed hope and nothing more will prove our ruin"
Trying to prove her wrong. That has been my intent.
You said "God's Spirit reveals to us how we're not trusting Him and brings us to accountability. "
Please expand on this.
Are you saying all sin is from not trusting God? |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 6:22 pm: | |
Amen Colleen! That's the answer that I didn't know how to say, Jim.
I also have tendencies to worry and fret. What the Bible is saying is people deliberately holding onto sins that they have no intention of letting the Lord take away from them. An example is the fact that people in a works religion can engage in a hideous sin. The news media recently reported on several people in the Mennonite religion doing a crime so hideous I was shocked. Such people aren't fully surrendered to God. They've never accepted Jesus as their Savior because they think that part of salvation is up to them, so they are not saved and don't have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit illuminates all the dark recesses of the heart. Unsaved people who are in a cult, can compartmentalize their minds, putting some favorite sin in one part and their "religion" in another. When they go to church, they're in their "religion" mode, just like the pharisees in Jesus' day. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2037
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 6:45 pm: | |
Jim; repent doesn't mean to overcome. Nobody will be perfect in this life. The ONLY way for anybody to be saved is simply to be as good as God.
To be as good as God is simply to accept Jesus' sacrifice for ourselves. Remember the parable about the king who invited all those guests? ALL they had to have was a wedding garment. JESUS' righteousness is what that wedding garment represents. Once a person really accepts Jesus' FINISHED work, they are saved!
Adventists don't accept that garment because they think part of it (salvation) is up to them - meaning they think [while shielding their minds from the fact that they actually think THAT] that part of the garment has to be their own works - their "overcoming," etc. Remember Ellen White taught that "we" push the sin out of ourselves with Jesus' power. She taught that if we stop pushing the sin out, we'll be lost. She said that no-one can say they're saved. She lied. Ephesians 2:8 says:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
This says very clearly that the believers that the author of Ephesians was writing to were SAVED, past tense. You and I have been taught that we cannot take the Bible literally for what it says. We've been taught that we need to believe Ellen White's "explanation." (Just like the Catholics believe their priests instead of what the Bible says.)
Salvation is so simple but we all (me too) tend to make it so difficult. |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2011 - 7:23 am: | |
Colleen & Asurprise,
Thsi morning I was reading Colleens article on the GC and realized that much of what she was challenging were the presuppostions that Adventist accept in the flow of EGW theology.
When I was in the SDA church. One of the adopted precepts I practiced was to "keep feeding".
While I thought I was feeding upon truth, in a safe haven from error. What I was also doing was laying layer upon layer of constructs to my belief system.
In honesty, is this not what every faith system does?
These layers are what becomes the defense system to faith. Our world view, our reception and comprehension.
Again, the analogy, Our Windows software.
So, when we discover conflict, stagnation, drudgery, error, etc , we consider there must be a flaw in our belief system.
We begin our search.
In my own experience, trying to relearn everything in light of what scripture reveals.
But with the old system still functioning, the transition to the new is bound to be tedious.
I often ask many questions, because I am trying to replace the old system with something I can hold onto.
Usually, only about a third of my questions are ever answered. Or it is redirected to a tangent.
I think that is my fault, I ask too many questions within one posting.
Then at times, there are responses that are non sequitor in effect simply because they are presented as an abstract answer that depends upon prior knowledge to get the point , or a different set of presuppostions to support it.
I have to break it down to smaller pieces so I grasp it.
Many days when I am in anxiety. It is usually teh smallest passage I keep repeating in prayer that calm my thoughts and allow me to face the challenge at hand.
Faith is like that. One small seed will carry a soul a long way. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2052
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 7:40 pm: | |
Jim; where you spend eternity isn't about what you do or don't do. It's about Who you know! |
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