| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12737
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 3:14 pm: |     |
Butterfly, I understand the "dead animal" thing. I have one son who still hasn't been able to eat meat because--well, just "because". The texture scares him; the taste scares him...and he knows it's really not an issue of right, wrong, or better-for-him.
He, like my husband, was imprinted at an early age with the idea that meat is not food. Richard finally was able to overcome this aversion when he realized it was a spiritual issue as well as something over which he had some responsibility.
Both Richard and our son have/had an aversion to meat, which is sorta like the flip-side of an addiction. An addiction is a desire you can't control; an aversion is a resistance you can't control. Richard began praying that he'd be able to eat meat without fear or throwing up, and he gradually began choosing to eat a bit every week. He finally ate a chicken salad one night after a month of taking tiny bites. He prayed his way through it.
You don't have to eat meat; it's just good to be able to do as the Bible says and eat whatever is put before you without question. This is a significant issue for former Adventists because, no matter what they say about health, to an Adventist vegetarianism has a spiritual component. They believe they won't have "clear minds" if they eat meat, and then they won't be able to discern the Holy Spirit properly. Moreover, they believe that meat makes them more prone to cancer and other diseases, and if they eat it, they are thus polluting God's temple.
None of these ideas is true. The Bible is clear about the place of food, and it has nothing to do with spirituality. It only had to do with the separation of Israel from the pagan nations.
So I'm not saying you need to eat meat. Just know that even this is something that God can help you to submit to Him so your eating or not eating is to Him, not for false purposes that you aren't even conscious are at work!
Colleen |
Bskillet
Registered user
Username: Bskillet
Post Number: 828
Registered: 8-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 3:44 pm: | |
I don't eat most kinds of vegetables because they taste bad. This is nature's way of saying "Don't eat this. It isn't food." Pepperoni, on the other hand, tastes delicious, which is nature's way off telling us to eat more of it.
In all seriousness, soy contains phyto-estrogen, so it can give men breasts. It is best consumed only in sauce form with high quantities of lemon chicken and rice at PF Chang's. |
Angelcat
Registered user
Username: Angelcat
Post Number: 335
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:39 pm: | |
"'I keep thinking "it's a dead animal".'
That's the way I think of them also, in fact I prefer them to be dead BEFORE I cook them and eat them.
Can't get my mind around eating a live animal.
Carnivore John"
Me too...
My mom did her best to raise me vegetarian, but I've always craved meat. Maybe if she'd included enough protein in my diet...
I have an SDA aunt who does eat "clean" meat, but she has to NOT think of it as animal or she couldn't eat it. No such problem for me...I know it's animal...yummy tasty animal.
Carnivore Beckie, who would never eat The Animal.
(Message edited by angelcat on July 12, 2011) |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 42
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 6:23 am: | |
Yes. I don't understand why SDAs must think that meat-eating is such a spiritual issue. God allowed people to eat animals, and that's it. I know that in Heaven people won't eat them. Yet on this Earth we have sin and so people eat animals and animals eat each other.
I did have issues with vegetarianism in Korea. It was hard to be vegetarian over there. I did it. Yet I was also losing my hair and getting ill from lack of nutrition. It also didn't help that Korean food often has red pepper paste in it. I was getting acid reflux. My brush was always filled with hair and my hair was all over my living space.
That being said, if people want to be vegetarian that's fine, but it also must work out. People shouldn't be vegetarian or vegan for the sake of it. Some folks have died (literally) or been chronically ill because vegetarianism wasn't done properly.
Social isolation is another issue with vegetarianism. For those who live near cattle ranches, fishing villages, etc. it's hard to be vegetarian all the time. And it's nice to enjoy food with friends and family rather than eating alone most of the time. |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 6:25 am: | |
While in Korea, there was an American pastor there who was the academic dean of the SDA Language Institute. He had such bad issues with soy that he was sometimes losing his hearing over it. He had an allergy. He had to leave Korea because of health issues, and I am sure it was mostly because of soy.
Soy is among the "Big Eight" of things people have allergies to. (Wheat, Egg, Milk, Tree Nuts, Peanuts, Fish, and Shellfish are the others). |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1960
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 7:36 am: | |
Butterfly,
I've never heard that people won't eat animals in Heaven. Is there a scripture verse you're referring to?
Leigh Anne |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2867
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 12:04 pm: | |
Thanks for asking the question I was thinking Leigh Anne! I grew up assuming that we wouldn't eat animals, but where did the idea come from I wonder? |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 1:43 pm: | |
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.--Isaiah 65:25
I figured this meant that animals won't eat each other. Since Heaven will have no death, no animals will have to die to become food. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2868
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 1:54 pm: | |
So, when we eat plants nothing dies? |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1961
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 3:20 pm: | |
I always thought that verse was more about how the Lion and the Lamb will be at peace with each other.
At the same time, I have never thought about what we'll eat in Heaven. I figure it would be the most delicious food ever. The Bible doesn't say we'll all be vegan. Does anyone have any verses referring to what we'll eat in Heaven? Maybe it will be Heavenly food and completely different from what we know here as humans...
??? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12756
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 4:05 pm: | |
Adventists use the Eden diet as their "guide" to heaven's diet. God gave Adam every plant bearing seed, but no animals. In fact, He didn't give the vegetables until after sin.
So this is the place they get their ideas of heaven. They assume that since will be be done, there will be no death...and they carefully taught that all death, including plant and animal death, was the result of sin. Of course, this is not stated in Scripture...but it is strongly EGW's scenario.
I remember pondering, as a child, what would happen to all the flowers people pick (including me) if they wouldn't die...and I never could conclude what God would do with our digestive process in heaven...!
Colleen |
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt
Post Number: 320
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 6:35 pm: | |
What does this scripture mean?
1 Corinthians 6:13
New Living Translation (NLT)
13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies.
1 Corinthians 6:13
Amplified Bible (AMP)
13Food [is intended] for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will finally end [the functions of] both and bring them to nothing. The body is not intended for sexual immorality, but [is intended] for the Lord, and the Lord [is intended] for the body [[a]to save, sanctify, and raise it again]. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12758
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 9:54 pm: | |
I don't fully know, 1John...but I do know that it means that the Creator of the universe, almighty God, has chosen to indwell our mortal tents. That's just unheard-of...eternal, immortal God lives inside the decaying bodies of His people and gives us His life and uses us to take His presence into a dying world.
We are literally His body...
Colleen |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 821
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 3:59 am: | |
Read on, 1John, and you'll see Paul continuing on with the argument that unlike diet (which concerns only you), sexual immorality concerns MORE than you. You were made to eat food, but you were not made to sleep around, having multiple uncommitted relationships. The family unit, learning to live for and provide for someone else (your wife/husband and kids) is what God intended for mankind. |
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt
Post Number: 321
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 5:20 am: | |
It's the part that says 'though someday God will do away with both of them' ie food & the stomach that has me wondering? that 'God will finally end' both of them? at some point. . .
There will be no marriage in heaven Jesus said. We will be like angels, whatever that is like. Maybe they do not need food & stomachs. Jesus referred to being like angels & no marriage as if it was obvious from reading scriptures - but it has not been obvious to me in my trips through the bible.
If there are no stomachs & no need for food then many other questions are answered; but not ones about what happens to flowers that have been picked, unless animals eat them. Who knows!
Just part of the wondering about heaven & our heavenly bodies. Whatever, it will be wonderful.
J9 |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 50
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 7:43 am: | |
I do think I have been influenced a lot by EGW regarding the life in Heaven.
Yes, I also thought of what will happen to all the flowers people pick that won't die. Maybe animals will eat them or we'll burn them?!
I really do want to think that meat won't be in Heaven. No death, so no animals or people dying. Plants don't have souls, so their dying to become food isn't an issue. |
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart
Post Number: 849
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:05 am: | |
I don't think we'll miss anything in heaven. 1 Corinthians 2:6-10 says:
"We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”
the things God has prepared for those who love him — these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit."
I can't wait for Jesus to come again! His ways are perfect. I think the food God has in mind for us will be so far above anything we have now.
There won't be sin or death. Love will be the motive of everyone. Jesus will reign. I can't wait!
Been thinking about heaven a lot lately... |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:32 am: | |
I want to go to Heaven so badly. I lost a cat in April who had a seizure and watched her die. Then in May the dog was hit by a SUV and had to be put to sleep by the vet. I ran into the street to try to catch him when he ran from the house.
I traveled to Japan when I was living in Asia. I was so horrified to see the tsunami footage, all those vehicles floating in the waves like they were children's bath toys.
I am so sick and tired of all the suffering. I just want to go home now. |
Butterfly_poette
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:36 am: | |
I was in Japan last year for a visa run to Osaka, and I also went to Tokyo for 5 days. I loved being in Japan. I think Japan is about 1% Christian. In Tokyo I found a festival going on. There was lots of food and music. Pots of morning glories were everywhere. I saw many souvenirs with morning glories on them. I wondered about their significance.
There was a temple nearby and people were leaving offerings and incense there. I noticed many wanted the smoke from the incense to be on them, were waving the smoke fumes towards themselves. It was fun to see many kids wearing kimonos.
I kept thinking to myself, "I wish these people knew Jesus". |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3742
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 9:47 pm: | |
Here is an interesting passage to ponder:
quote:"The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7 And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 25:6-8 NASB.)
Isaiah 65 is actually referring to the Millennium here on this earth, but this passage (or at least the first part) sounds like it may be as well.
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on July 19, 2011) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12762
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:55 pm: | |
So interesting! Thanks for the quote, Jeremy...
Colleen |
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt
Post Number: 322
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 8:10 am: | |
Very interesti;ng - & note the specifics: aged wine, choice pices with marrow, then repeating: refined, age wine. . . .
BTW marrow is also translated 'fat' . . . something to contemplate
J9 |
Rider
Registered user
Username: Rider
Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 1:25 pm: | |
And here is one more:
Matthew 26:29
I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.” |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12768
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 10:18 pm: | |
Yes--I think of that often when we have communion...it's an amazing promise!
Colleen |
