| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1020 Registered: 7-2004  |
SDAs believe that they study the Bible and know it well. Most of us probably felt that way while we were SDA. Yet looking back we can realize how poorly equipped SDAs are when it comes to Bible study. I would like to explore some of the reasons, along with examples, in this thread. Disclaimer to anyone joining this discussion, I am using this discussion in order to organize and expand my thoughts into a paper on the subject. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1021 Registered: 7-2004 |
Barrier: The Adult Sabbath School Class Discussion Certainly there were many SDA adult classes that were lectures more than discussions. And the style, lecture vs discussion, wasn't the issue. The issue was the nature of the discussion. What seemed to be valued in every adult class of this type that I attendeed was intellectualism and philosophy. The week's topic was a launching point for participants to provide complex rationalizations for why they believed and concluded what they did. These rationalizations were almost devoid of Scriptural content. And the more polished the logic of the philosophy, the more people in the class embraced the concept. This interferes with "real" Bible study because it establishes the expectation that the truth is found in our thoughts and logic rather than in the Word. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1022 Registered: 7-2004 |
Barrier: Prooftexts in published SDA studies The problem with "prooftexts" is not that texts are being presented to support a doctrine. On the contrary, that is a good idea. The problem is presenting or using these passages with no regard for the immediate literary context. For example, a favorite verse of SDAism is John 14:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments", but SDAs draw conclusions about what is meant by "my commandments" without considering that as part of this same talk by Jesus, He defines what His commandments are in John 15:12 "“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you." By removing the verse from the immediate context (in this case the immediate context is Jesus' final instructions to His apostles presented from the final part of chapter 13 through chapter 16) it strips away the direct answers provided in the passage and allows personal interpretations to be inserted. This approach is particularly dangerous because it gives the impression of sticking directly with what the Bible says, when in fact it is replacing what the Bible really says in context with an alternate man-made viewpoint. Because SDAs are taught to look at these single texts in isolation, reading Scripture contextually is impaired. Even when entire passages are read, there has been no practice and examples of how that context informs the reader about the meaning. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 570 Registered: 4-2007 |
As an Adventist I was in an a intellectual fog and never considered studying on my own outside the system. "So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive." Isaiah 28:13 'We have the truth and here are the SDA friendly snippets of scripture to prove it' It's always about what they (Ellen) believe, never about what God teaches, hence book by book study of the NT (ESPECIALLY Paul) is not presented or encouraged for fear that the members will find out that the Bible IS understandable, study on their own and discover that what the church presents is NOT what God teaches. The SS lessons are designed to 'prove' the SDA presuppositions from the Pen of Liability, NEVER to test them. They are a deliberate confusion of 'hop, skip and jump proof texts' from Genesis to Revelation, leaving the student perplexed and dependent on the 'experts' for the summary. This intentional uncertainty 'forces' the student to rely on the system, convinced that he can't go it alone. The SDA Sabbath school is simply a propaganda tool intended to keep members in ignorance and in line | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1024 Registered: 7-2004 |
Barrier: SDA Bible Studies use leading questions to add to the Word of God Here are a couple of examples from an SDA Bible Study on the Sabbath that illustrate how this misleading tactic is used.
Let's look at the verses cited: 4 What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? 5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! 6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, 7 All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, 8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas Notice that these verse say nothing at all about why the Sabbath was given to man, but the SDA writing this Bible study has provided some very specific commentary. This commentary is not based on the passages that he has cited, but is part of the subtle manipulation and indoctrination being performed. These little additions that are not supported by, or even discussed in, the verses cited are an important tool in the SDA deception through so-called Bible studies. Look carefully at what is and is not contained in each passage cited (and the surrounding texts).
Again, let's look at the verse that was cited. Just in case we might have missed something, I'll expand it to the entire context. 17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." There is no “Sabbath covenant” discussed here or anywhere else in the creation account. Once again, we find an outside concept being inserted into the interpretation of a passage. SDAs aren't taught to read the Scripture to evaluate what is written in the passage. They are taught sets of beliefs and given vaguely related and sometimes unrelated passages to convince themselves that the beliefs are actually Biblical and that they are studying the Bible. All that they have learned in a study like this example is to accept the words of a man (or woman) above the Word of God. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1025 Registered: 7-2004 |
Barrier: SDA chain link Bible study I was fortunate enough to have joined SDAism as an adult. But I have seen my wife's Bible from Academy (SDA high school for any non-SDA lurker first coming across the word). Instead of reading a book of the Bible, or a chapter, or even a paragraph, the emphasis was placed on creating a chain of passages that could be connected together to support an SDA position on a subject. One might claim that this is redundant with the "prooftexting" barrier listed previously. And it certainly contains the error of prooftexting. But it goes beyond this in that: a) it gives the impression of having studied the whole of what the Bible says on a topic, when in fact it often ignores more verses than it includes, verses that could change one's conclusions. b) by promoting this as what Bible study is, it keeps the person from understanding either verse by verse exegetical study or even true topical study using Bible study tools to find all of the passages relating to the topic at hand. | ||
| Michaelmiller Registered user Username: Michaelmiller Post Number: 351 Registered: 7-2010  |
I was just thinking about and discussing this with a SDA who is studying out. My take: Barrier #1: Guilt... If you are studying and happen to refer to non-SDA material and it disagrees with the SDA message, then clearly it is the work of Satan and must be discarded immediately. If the Bible seems to disagree with the SDA message, then clearly it is being misunderstood. To entertain any other notion comes with lots of guilt and fear that you will be deceived. It really is too confusing to sort through; it is best to just leave that the the educated pastors and to be a spectator through the sermons. Barrier #2: The SS Quarterly Few of the SDAs I knew actually had a desire to study. It is so much easier to remain "blissfully ignorant" than to fully take in the whole (hopeless) message or to have to face the contradictions. No problem... there is the SS quarterly... if you have done the SS lesson, then you have "studied", right? The problem is, the quarterly is written in such a way that regardless of what it says on the cover it is really just a regurgitation of the same fundamentals over and over again. You haven't really studied at all, but instead have gotten a "good Adventist" pat on the back for answering the questions with the same tired old SDA cliches that you've already used dozens of times. You think you have studied, and you think that any study on any subject will prove the SDA points... as long as you don't look too closely or bring the rest of the Bible into it. You already have your "study credit" for the week... why would you need to study more? Your thoughts on the philosophizing of the quarterly are interesting. I had not considered that aspect before. Michael | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1026 Registered: 7-2004 |
Barrier: The power of speculation SDAs routinely confuse speculation with Bible study. I believe that this is because they have been trained to speculate under the guise of Bible study. These two have become so naturally linked that they don't always grasp the difference. Again, let me show an example from an SDA Bible study.
First, notice that the question asks the one studying to speculate, but then the author jumps in with an answer based on their own speculations. Next we can look at the contents of the passage cited: {1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.} Notice that the author of this study provides two reasons. But these two "reasons" are speculations, not specific information provided in the text. This is a common tactic of SDAs, they fill in many blanks with speculation while giving unsuspecting people the idea that the teaching is Biblical. Through studies like these SDAs are taught that making speculations about biblical passages is a valid means of Bible study. And through the notes provided with the study, the idea that these speculations are Biblical truth is reinforced. This is a very dangerous false teaching about Bible study. It has placed our imagination and reason above the literal Word of God. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1027 Registered: 7-2004 |
Michael, Great thought on the guilt barrier. I hadn't even considered how that impacts the study habits and methods of SDAs. You and Jonvil also provided great thoughts on the nature of the SS lessons. They provide a complacency about having really done Bible study while the nature of how they approach study prevents or great limits studying the Word. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 573 Registered: 4-2007 |
Adventist Theology is a closed loop system, it begins and ends with Ellen. I believe the 'barriers' were designed to act as filters to prevent 'contamination' (truth) from outside the system from entering the loop. While fairly effective in the 'old days' the advent of the internet created a flow of information that has torn holes in the filter, as witnessed by the increasing attrition the SDAC is experiencing. I know that I've posted this before but it's a great illustration of a barrier Ellen erected to prevent God's Word from entering her system. Just slightly modified (everything in blue) I am instructed to say (as told to ME by my guide, a young man of noble appearance*)... we are not to receive the words of those (apostates) who come with a (Bible only) message that contradicts the special points (that I have produced or endorsed, such as the Sabbath, 1844, IJ, diet, perfectionism…MY distinctives) of our faith. They (apostates) gather together a mass of Scripture (not interpreted by ME), and pile it as proof around their asserted (Bible only) theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while (some of) the Scriptures (are possibly inspired and) are God's word (many are just the personal opinions of the writers, mainly Paul, and are to be disregarded), and are to be respected (but not taken literally, ignore) the application of them (anything not interpreted by ME) , if such application moves (contradicts MY writings) one pillar (same as 'special points', see above) from the foundation that God (as established and interpreted by ME,) has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He (an apostate) who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit (I am the Spirit of Prophecy, MY writings! MY interpretations!) that gave power and force to the past messages that have come (by ME; much more than just a Prophet) to the (chosen) people of God (the REMNANT, The Seventh Day Adventist Church).--Letter 329, 1905 (Selected Messages, Vol 1, page 160-161). | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2009 |
Jonvil, Are the words in blue something you added or are they really part of the text she wrote? | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Thank-you for this quote from 'egw'~ It is reminder of how masterful she was in creating GUILT in members of the church~ Not only guilt but great FEAR~ Thank GOD I am no longer a slave to these teachings~ ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 574 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Are the words in blue something you added or are they really part of the text she wrote?" Added for 'clarification'  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12616 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great point about Adventist "study" really being about speculation...and when an Adventist is confronted with the idea of submitting his/her mind to Scripture, they balk. I've come to believe their resistance stems from the notion that they perceive the Holy Spirit cognitively, thus, "intelligent philosophizing" is a sign of spiritual insight and sophistication. The idea that they must submit their minds to Scripture horrifies many Adventists. Their minds are their tools for "understanding" Scripture. Putting Scripture over their minds would seem to them to be mindless and "fundamentalist" (said as a dirty word). Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1031 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wow. As soon as I read that, it struck true to me. What an amazing insight on how the mixed of theology of the Holy Spirit has a visible impact on behaviors. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 575 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Great point about Adventist "study" really being about speculation...and when an Adventist is confronted with the idea of submitting his/her mind to Scripture, they balk. I've come to believe their resistance stems from the notion that they perceive the Holy Spirit cognitively, thus, "intelligent philosophizing" is a sign of spiritual insight and sophistication. The idea that they must submit their minds to Scripture horrifies many Adventists. Their minds are their tools for "understanding" Scripture. Putting Scripture over their minds would seem to them to be mindless and "fundamentalist" (said as a dirty word)." Pretty subtle, let me see if I understand what you're saying. Their act/process of knowing/perception (all 16 million variations) is evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit. ANYTHING that conflicts with this MUST BE WRONG, including scripture. 'Because I 'know' I'm right (and I am always right), it must be the work of God'. 'Everything I believe, speculate, imagine IS the work of God. Explains why my wife (sorry for bringing her up all the time but she's the only Adventist I have any direct contact with), who espouses a 'belief' in the indwelling Holy Spirit, cannot conceive of ever being wrong, 'evidence' be damned. It is a self-importance born of those who deny their sinfulness, helplessness, hopelessness and ignorance. All too common in the Christian community John | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1911 Registered: 7-2007 |
Excellent points! When I was an Adventist, I didn't realize it, but I tried to force the Bible to agree with Ellen White, whenever I read something in the Bible that disagreed with her. I simply thought she had an explanation for the verse(s). I also went along with those verses plucked here and there and strung together to support Adventist doctrine. I didn't see anything wrong with it. My thought now is: "How could I have been so stupid?!" It was so refreshing to go to a real Christian church, after God rescued me, and hear a book of the Bible preached straight through, without the pastor leaving out parts. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1434 Registered: 12-2007 |
Asurprise: "It was so refreshing to go to a real Christian church, after God rescued me, and hear a book of the Bible preached straight through, without the pastor leaving out parts." AMEN ! Also without adding in Ellenisms. The Bible ONLY ! | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 833 Registered: 10-2006 |
The biggest barrier to Bible study I saw was the "we have the essential truth - the rest of the Bible is optional" mentality. For many Adventists in the church, I saw (as an adult convert who came in through a prophecy seminar) an almost arrogant we already know everything we need to know mentality. Once someone got through the foundational Daniel SS class, Sabbath school was not considered to be important. Once you knew the stuff from that class, you were expected to begin "Bible studies" with a non adventist right away. Another barrier I saw was the "he is such as godly man - he would never lead us astray" mentality. The conference president an other VIP's in the church were so highly regarded that questioning them was almost heretical. One example of that was when a conference leader was preaching. He made some statements that did not go along with the texts he was claiming taught those things. I asked an elder about it at potluck. He told me the leader had his reasons and to trust him. I got a tape and asked the speaker about it. There was no response. I asked the elder again what he meant. The whole sermon was pure heresy in my book. Nobody else (at least to my knowledge) ever questioned that sermon or anything else they were being taught. I guess that's just another version of the "we already have the essential truth - the rest is optional barrier." | ||
| Grace1958_f Registered user Username: Grace1958_f Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2011 |
I am so very thankful for this thread of posts. I am helping my husband write a letter to his SDA son in an attempt to explain to his son why he left the SDA church. He wanted to emphasize the difference between how the SDA’s are taught to read and interpret scripture and how he learned how to study the word using correct Hermeneutics - thus discovering truth in God's word. Much of what has been said here is very helpful to us as we move forward in writing to his son. |
