| Author |
Message |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1449
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 5:36 pm: |     |
Colleen: "Past discussions with my in-laws have demonstrated this frustrating reality many times. We would quote a very clear Bible text (such as Mark 7:19 where it says, "Thus He declared all foods clean") and they'll say, "That's you're interpretation." (Because, you know, unclean meats are not food.) "
Hmmmm.... IF "unclean" meats are not "food" then why would God bother to make them clean ????
Francie |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1450
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 5:42 pm: | |
Also,,,,, if "unclean meats are not food" but God declared all foods clean.... why would He declare foods clean that were already clean ??? So He had to be declaring something clean that was not before considered clean... or why bother ? |
Mkfound
Registered user
Username: Mkfound
Post Number: 94
Registered: 1-2011
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 8:45 pm: | |
The explanation that I've heard about 'all foods are clean' is that since the context of eating the food was 'dirty hands', then what was declared clean was the food that was eaten with dirty hands--especially since the clean/dirty hands idea was Pharisaical. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12665
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 8:51 pm: | |
Skeeter, that's just WAY too much logic for an Adventist mindset...how on earth does one hang onto "truth" if rational thought plays a role?
The gospel is not logical, actually...but it makes more and more sense the more literally and seriously one takes the Bible. It doesn't fall apart, as does Adventist thought, when one "pushes" the Bible to the bottom line and literal meanings of the words. It's amazing. Reality is much bigger than what we can actually "see", and the Bible gives us glimpses into that unseen reality. In Christ everything hangs together.
Colleen |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1062
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 5:33 am: | |
quote:The gospel is not logical, actually...but it makes more and more sense the more literally and seriously one takes the Bible.
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
These, at least to me, help describe one of the core problems of SDA Bible Study. SDA theology relies so heavily on drawing inferences and making speculations that it becomes all about "our wisdom". SDAism places a great deal of emphasis on higher education, which is certainly a good thing. But the reason for this emphasis is steeped in false theology.
SDAism's rejection of the spirit as a separate part of the person that is completely distinct from the body influences their Bible Study technique as well. Since, in the SDA mindset, our spirit is really just another way of describing our thoughts and emotions we grow our spirit by growing out intellect. We demonstrate our depth of spirit through our intellectual reasoning. We understand the spiritual world through our intellect, because ultimately spiritual=intellectual. We rationalize, specualate and infer in order to know God better. But God isn't found through wisdom, and the message of the Gospel is contrary to all our wisdom.
One of my friends describes the SDA approach to Bible Study as "the Bible is a crossword puzzle to solve, you spend all of your time tryng to correctly fill-in the blanks and hope that you are correct".
Correcting this SDA mindset cannot be accomplished through more wisdom, logic, and intellect. The problem is more fundamental, it is a spiritual problem. And if SDA theology won't allow them to distinguish between the spirit and the intellect, the True Gospel will remain foolishness. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1451
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 8:29 am: | |
"Correcting this SDA mindset cannot be accomplished through more wisdom, logic, and intellect. The problem is more fundamental, it is a spiritual problem. And if SDA theology won't allow them to distinguish between the spirit and the intellect, the True Gospel will remain foolishness."
AMEN !!!!!!! |
Rossbondreturns
Registered user
Username: Rossbondreturns
Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 11:49 am: | |
AMEN indeed!
On my wall I'm talking with Sean again a Adventist about how Jesus cannot be Michael the Archangel. This whole conversation is tacked onto a status update about the Difference between the 10 Commandments and God's Commands...but I used John chapter 1 v. 1-5 to support that Jesus is the one for whom all creation was made. And Sean said I was using scripture incorrectly!
IN another thread on my wall specifically about Michael the Archangel He tells me there's no Bible text that shows the creation of Michael the Archangel! Ummm Michael was created at the same time as all the other Angels.
It's driving me nuts. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12668
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 5:13 pm: | |
Rick, you have summarized the heart of the danger of Adventism. They are convinced that the idea of an immaterial spirit is dangerous and leads them on the path to spiritualism. Thus they objectify and "physical-ize" the words of Scripture.
There is no possible way for them to really discern the truth within Scripture unless they are willing to know that truth...as Paul says in Ephesians 3:14-19
quote:For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Catch that? We can know the love that surpasses knowledge...and that is a spiritual "knowing". It has nothing at all to do with intellect.
This spiritual reality renews our minds...but it does not originate in our minds. God is Spirit, and we must worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24-26).
Colleen |
Grace1958_f
Registered user
Username: Grace1958_f
Post Number: 63
Registered: 3-2011
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 8:33 pm: | |
Colleen: Your scripture reference to the verses Ephesians 3:14-19 are dear to me because I prayed those exact verses for my SDA step-son for several years. The love that Jesus Christ has for each one of us is boundless and totally awesome!!! |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1066
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 3:41 am: | |
I used to think that SDA doctrine on our lack of a spirit was quirky but mostly harmless. I've come to realize that it is a core element of the deception, affecting so many other areas. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12673
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 9:32 pm: | |
Again, Rick, I totally agree. It warps their entire view of reality.
Colleen |
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