| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12587 Registered: 12-2003  |
So I got another email from someone--I thought it would be interesting to get your feedback on it! Here it is:
Sigh...I really do dislike the intricate, big-words-phrases, arrogant-toned arguments so many people use to try to confuse people and defend Adventism. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9190 Registered: 3-2004  |
Since I have left adventism I have been asked on CARM what I think of all the above. I tell them I do not know as I have not studied it out since leaving and that when God wants me to know He will tell me. I have told the asker it feels good not to have an answer for everything like I did as an adventist. That usually stops them for me. I have not been asked for a long time. i only go over there to read mostly. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12588 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good point, Diana. We don't have to answer everything! Colleen | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 164 Registered: 8-2010  |
I find it interesting and revealing that Adventists are fond of reading so much INTO Scripture with the peripheral symbols, yet they still miss the context and meaning of what is written. I continue to subscribe to the expression, "The main things are the plain things, and the plain things are the main things", everything else is peripheral. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12590 Registered: 12-2003 |
Did you catch the (really annoying) assumption that there are two steps in salvation? All the flowery-sounding phrases are just camouflaging that assumption which skews everything... In fact, there are a lot of hidden assumptions that skew the arguments in that paragraph. Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 993 Registered: 7-2004  |
The one and only reason that SDAs have to hold on to this viewpoint is 1844. Yet Hebrews plainly indicates that Jesus already fulfilled the Day of Atonement sacrifice and the Day of Atonement entry through the curtain. It also is impossible for Christ to have been enthroned at His ascension without going to the location of the throne, the Most Holy Place. Adventism presupposes that the Day of Atonement is not fulfilled and therefore ignores the teaching of Hebrews and builds a false theology of fall feasts to surround the 1844 error. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 522 Registered: 3-2009 |
Here's how I'd respond to my friend if it were me: "Let's individually read the books of Galatians and Hebrews in the ESV a couple of times through, and come together to discuss at your convenience." | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 610 Registered: 7-2005 |
@Colleen
Ah, former adventists can catch many things. Usually I catch the things with which my current position stands in disagreement. Interesting is that when I relax and look from outside for areas of agreement, sooner or later I discover how the adventist claim crashes. Here is part of the claim: 1. Spring festivals: proclamation of the gospel 2. Autumn festivals: proclamation of the third angel's message. Now it's time to ask the adventist with whom I'm talking about how many gospels exists. Of course, he will have to say that it's only one. Next I'll ask what is the third angel's message. If he doesn't remember, I'll quote Revelation 14:6, angel with "an eternal gospel." I'll ask him if he still stands with the statement that it's only one gospel, and if he change course I'll ask for a reason he changed his mind. Once he will admit that these messages are identical, why separate them for 1800 years? Admittedly, he can give some answers that sound plausible, uttering something about present truth, but sure, he doesn't want to say that this present truth, present gospel is different than the gospel proclaimed in the first century. Does he? "Are you saying that these are two different messages, and you're giving a different message than the first?" I'm sure we will dance around this, my goal is to dance enough that the music will play in his ears even days after we have the conversation. If he's advocating a different and improved gospel, making him think about it and even acknowledging it, at least, to himself, will make the interaction a success. After all, it's his belief, not mine, if he cannot make sense of it, who will? Gabriel | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 996 Registered: 7-2004 |
During the Old Testament Day of Atonement, the following activities occurred: Performed by High Priest only (Lev 16:32) Occurs once each year (Lev 16:29-30) Sacrifices include bull and ram (Lev 16:3) Two goats are taken as a sin offering (Lev 16:5) One goat is slain (Lev 16:15) The High Priest enters the Most Holy Place to the presence of God (Lev 16:2) and the mercy seat (Lev 16:14-15) The live goat bears the sins of the people (Lev 16:21-22) Hebrews indicates that the shadows of this feast were fulfilled in the following ways: Jesus is our High Priest (Heb 9:11) Jesus performed once for all (Heb 9:12, 24) what the High Priest performed every year (Heb 9:7, 25) Christ entered with His own blood rather than the blood of a bull, ram, and goat (Heb 9:12,13) Jesus enters into the Most Holy Place and the presence of God (Heb 9:24) Christ bears the sins of the people (Heb 9:28) According to Paul’s letter to the Hebrews, Christ fulfilled the typology of the Day of Atonement in the first Century. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 997 Registered: 7-2004 |
Gabriel, You should know that SDAs don't dance. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12593 Registered: 12-2003 |
I like it, Seekinglight. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12594 Registered: 12-2003 |
 Great posts, Gabriel and Rick! Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1901 Registered: 7-2007 |
First of all, the Passover didn't commemorate the Exodus; it commemorated Jesus. The Passover celebration is such a beautiful picture of Jesus as the Lamb of God! The first born weren't saved by fleeing Egypt, they were saved by the lamb's blood on the door. Jesus' blood on our hearts saves us. Literally. The destroying angel didn't ask how obedient the inhabitants were. No. Only whether or not the blood was on the door posts. Likewise, are those who are saved, saved because they are keeping laws? No. They are saved if they have the Blood on their hearts. Period. Salvation is simple and available to all who accept Jesus. The Holy Spirit in our hearts causes us to live for God, but His work in our hearts doesn't save us. Those who accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord are SAVED the instant they accept Him and they STAY saved. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't say that God "gave us [believers] ETERNAL life" - 1st John 5:11. And what's this "universal broadening of the covenant"? The Adventist writer obviously doesn't realize that Jesus brought in a whole new covenant - Hebrews 9:15-17 and that the old covenant is obsolete - Hebrews 8:13. (Another thing I find curious, is the Adventist writer's saying concerning Jesus; "His enthronement at the right hand of the Father." Doesn't he or she realize that Ellen White said that Jesus waited until 1844 before He went into the Most Holy Place? But obviously the Most Holy Place would be wherever God is. Since He sat down at the right hand of God (Hebrews 10:12), He was IN the Most Holy Place! Also see Hebrews 6:19-20 and Hebrews 9:25.)  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12595 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great points, Asurprise! Great reminder about Passover. I think one of the things that bothers me the most is the incredible fog of WORDS Adventists use when they create their arguments. They hide their dogma underneath mind-numbing verbosity... Sigh... Colleen | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 576 Registered: 1-2006  |
Great thread, thanks! | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 566 Registered: 4-2007 |
"I think one of the things that bothers me the most is the incredible fog of WORDS Adventists use when they create their arguments. They hide their dogma underneath mind-numbing verbosity..." It takes pages of creative scripture twisting and abstruse opinion disguised as undeniable fact to establish that their presupposition is, in effect, 2+2=Pi (in the sky). Jaundiced John | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 821 Registered: 8-2008 |
The Bible's two steps to salvation: Step 1: Jesus died for my sins. Step 2: Jesus rose from the grave to give me new Life. |
