| Author |
Message |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3663
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 8:10 pm: |     |
River,
You wrote:
quote:There are people like Hank Hanegraff of CRI who do blanket all Pentecostals as cultic because of his stand on tongues,
Actually, while Hank/CRI says that the UPCI is not an orthodox Christian church, they do not label all Pentecostal churches as such, or everyone who speaks in tongues as cultic. They do label the Word of Faith movement as cultic.
CRI concludes their statement on the UPCI as follows:
quote:For these and other reasons, the United Pentecostal Church International cannot be regarded as an orthodox Christian church. We can afford to differ on peripheral issues, but not when it comes to the essentials of the Christian faith.
http://www.equip.org/perspectives/united-pentecostal-church
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on April 19, 2011) |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3664
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 8:27 pm: | |
By the way, I agree with River that Assemblies of God churches can vary widely from church to church. For example, I know of an AG church in California (http://www.foothillchurch.net/) which even adheres to Calvinism!
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on April 19, 2011) |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7216
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 10:09 pm: | |
I took no offense Ric, I'm good here.  I quite agree with you, some of the charismatics are Corinth all over again.
I guess I'm an old fashioned stickler for the bible, but that ain't gonna change anyway soon I don't expect.
Jeremy, Hank has said just what I said, he may not feel that way, but he said it. Of course I never make mistakes meself..Ya yaaa yaoow. So we'll give old Hank the benefit of the doubt.
I ain't taking up for the AoG either, I got my own peeves, the structure of it is not well known I think. Is it a denomination or ain't it? It sorta is but it sorta ain't, if that makes any sense.
Primarily the reason I belong to it is their emphasis on missions support.
I guess I'm a Pentecalmethluthernistcal.
River |
Honestwitness
Registered user
Username: Honestwitness
Post Number: 1168
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 3:55 am: | |
Hey, River...that's what I am, too! *high five* |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 933
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 6:11 am: | |
River,
Good to hear, I wanted to make sure. Churches within any denomination or persuasion (for those attending ones that belong to a non-denominational denomination) can vary widely. Personally, I put considerable emphasis on the "official" doctrinal statements and explanations. No doubt that has roots in my experience within SDAism and the process by which I left SDAism. I know other people who left SDAism because they "knew" something was wrong and it was years later before they understood what was wrong with SDA doctrine. Praise God for all the ways in which He works.
There are multiple groups or denominations where I could happily be a part of, depending on the local church. And sometimes it is for different reasons, like your emphasis on mission support. I like the Ev Free emphasis on expository teaching, I like Vineyard's emphasis on serving and evangelizing those in your own backyard, and I like the Lutheran emphasis on proclaiming the Gospel in every message. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7218
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 2:22 pm: | |
Oh most definably, I have seen that trait in formers all to much not to know their views have been affected by their past. But perhaps that is a good thing because the former comes out without experience and it keeps him from stumbling into just more headaches.
Churches are what churches are, stick churches dotting the landscape is outward evidence of Christ church and it’s work in the world today. I have come to think we are not put here to change others into our own image, but to reach the world for Christ. This is self evident in the Bible. What we have in common is the pillars of the Christian faith with Christ the center. I have emphasized the four pillars of the Christian faith and if I need to repeat it yet again it is these.
1. Believe that Christ died and rose the third day.
2. Sola fide, by faith alone.
3. Christ deity.
4. Absolute and complete atonement for our sins at the cross.
It is on the four pillars of the Christian faith that we can stand and reach out a hand to each other if we just will.
Like the natural body when foreign germs try to enter it, certain organisms rush in to oust the offending germ, otherwise the whole body becomes sick.
Certain heresies are deadly to the body, and if it does not adhere to those four principles mentioned, you can better believe your Christian life will begin to languish because of it and judgment will soon become clouded.
I think the body has many different functioning parts and when heretic organisms try to invade, a soldier will rush in to defend the Gospel, then another will say brother, you’re too rough, you need love. No..the soldier is just functioning, is a functioning part of the body and he will defend it with his life if necessary.
Paul teaches us in about this in 1Cor, 12: 1-27. Jesus, through Paul is telling us what is happening if we can learn to listen and use discernment.
The most of the time if we don’t have discernment its because we are spending too much time with the world but experience helps us to make good judgment calls too I think. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 9:15 am: | |
Hey River,
In regards to post 7212:
Those who adhere to the modalist/oneness heresy would say, "The Bible says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It says 'name' singular not plural. That one name is 'Jesus'. Therefore, if you are not baptized in the name of Jesus-only you have not met the biblical requirements of valid baptism and are not saved".
Yeah, I know, it makes no sense, but I've dialogued with them enough to know that this is the inevitable response. |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 668
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:27 am: | |
ric, et.al.
I see a few people have responded since I was last here. I am not really familiar with the American AoG, I did say I knew British AoG and the Hungarian church.
I would agree with quite a lot of what has been said. I cringe too about all the excesses and abuses of some sections of the Charismatic/Prophetic movement. I really have very little to do with it, living here in Eastern Europe.
I too would label UPCI as a cult, as I said, and there are major problems with the Word of Faith movement.
What I have noticed here, for instance, is that the practices of individual congregations do not always line up with the statement of faith anyway. The denomination recently (a couple of years ago) revised its statement of faith, as it had last been done in the 50s I think, and I was asked to help as I was teaching at the Bible college then. I reckon what we came up with was pretty good. I could agree with it, as I say, I helped to formulate it. Pretty well an evangelical statement of faith, with a Pentecostal approach, naturally.
However, as far as the practices of the individual churches are concerned, for the most part they are so legalistic that many appear not even to understand the basic gospel. So there is a massive contrast between the theory of what we say we believe, and the practice of what effect it has on our lives. Anyone ever spot anything like that, or is it just Eastern Europe?
As for UPCI, I listened to a couple of debates on YouTube between Oneness and Trinitarian representatives, so if anyone is interested in their arguments, you should check them out.
Personally, after hearing these, I am convinced the Oneness postition just has no basis whatsoever. It is not even subtle error, like SDA, it is just bad. These people (at least the ones here) seem to have no scholarship to back up their views:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQdUxAK58A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lddxp6DcdJI
Just by the way, some interesting things happening in the mission we are involved with. Gifts of the Spirit in operation there OK:
http://athb4hu.wordpress.com/church-planting/
God bless,
Adrian |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 669
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 11:07 am: | |
This one is almost as good as, "What about the Sabbath?":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZHnaK3H97Q&feature=related |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 937
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 12:14 pm: | |
Doc,
Sounds like we are on the same page. |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 670
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 1:06 pm: | |
ric,
Good to hear it! |
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