| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1783 Registered: 7-2007 |
I read an article today from "The Berean Call" called "The Works-Salvation Delusion." It certainly shows the difference between the "works" and "partly works" religions and real Christianity. http://www.thebereancall.org/node/8569 Dianne | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2777 Registered: 8-2004  |
Awesome article! "Do versus Done" | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2011 |
I really liked this article, thanks for sharing it. It goes along perfectly with the SDA deception, because the devil is OK with good works, and all good things even--as long as Jesus isn't believed in--no problemo. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1784 Registered: 7-2007 |
You're welcome!  | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1172 Registered: 7-2004  |
It was a good article, but I think he is ignorant of Lutheran theology and Lutherans do not belong in this sentence:
Lutherans do believe it is ultimately God's decision who is saved and who is not, with or without baptism or sacraments. Lutherans are monergists and don't even believe in "decision theology" - they are the ultimate "faith alone" proponents. Lutherans see baptism and sacraments as "means of receiving God's grace" but they also believe hearing God's Word is another means, and that saving faith comes through hearing God's Word just as well as through baptism. This is in contrast to the non-music Church of Christ groups who truly believe a person must be baptized, no exceptions. I even asked a member of that church about the thief on the cross and was told that was the only exception and it is only because Jesus specifically told him that - it can never apply to anyone else. Lutherans don't belong in that category! Just when I think there's a great article to share, someone has to throw in something completely unsupportable. | ||
| Alison1 Registered user Username: Alison1 Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2010 |
I read the article, too. And I understand where he is coming from. But if you really think it through, nearly every church has some form of "works" involved somewhere. You need to remember how did all these churches, cults, denominations come from. They all were started by one man or several men. So what can one say. The church that Jesus Christ initiated is one that is generic. He officiates over all. As long as man lives in this world. There will always be differing views in everything, including churches (and that means the SDA church, too) Why do you think there a wide range of views even within the SDA church now? To accept or to walk away completely from whatever church, all of us have to answer to both God and Jesus Christ for our lives. Leave the judging to Jesus Christ and God the Father. | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 124 Registered: 10-2009  |
I think works in building a religion and works coming from being born again are markedly different works. When each denomination was founded it was because say Martin Luther made a rediscovery and they fashioned a church around that belief. However Adventism is made up of made up beliefs, based upon made up prophecies by a made up prophet, all based on a made up date for the return of Christ. There's a huge difference there that Adventism does it's best to cover up every day. Eventually it will come out but there's nothing wrong with myself or others blogging about the realities of Adventism to make people aware. What we do versus what's been done is just one tiny aspect in which Adventism is woefully incorrect. I really think this article is as us Brits say... Bang On! And we need more like it. Sorry if I'm a little ticked off but I'm tired of people falling for the delusion that Adventism is Christian, and when they release such illuminating books as they are now at the ABC I want to get the word out right then and there. Ross | ||
| Alison1 Registered user Username: Alison1 Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2010 |
Rossbondreturns, Your comments sound more confusing to me than ever. Sounds like to me that having been an adventist was a real bad experience for you and just angers you to pieces. Fortunely, when I was an Adventist it was a wonderful experience for me because I had come out of Mormonism. I didn't know what it meant to accept Jesus Christ. I came to Adventism at the time when Desmond Ford and Walter Rea were in conflict with the church and alot of people had left as a result of that. I'm not so sure I can be so vindictive against them. I do see the errors of adventism but it is not my job to pass judgement on them. I'm going to let God and Jesus Christ do the judging. I think I might have to excuse myself from posting from this whole site. Because I do still have some positive feelings towards the adventist people but I do pray that the Lord will open their eyes to their wrongful ways and teachings. | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2009 |
Oh believe me I have positive feelings also. But I cannot excuse their false doctrine and will point it out gladly. They claim to be Christian and are not. Two many Christians loose their faith and are sucked into the dangers of Adventism and people must realize that Adventism is not Christian. I love my Adventist family and friends, but I cannot stand by the errors they teach. Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin that is how I feel about Adventism. Love the people hate the blasphemy taught to them and by them. | ||
| Alison1 Registered user Username: Alison1 Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2010 |
thank you for the clarification of where you stand on this issue. | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2009 |
You're more than welcome Alison, I'm sorry if I caused misunderstanding for you. But as a former SDA PK (Pastor's Kid) I can't stand not standing up for the truth I now know. Ross | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1315 Registered: 12-2007 |
I also have some good memories from when I was SDA. I remember the Sabbath services up in the Sequoia park in the summers, the hikes and potlucks, the fellowship with some really wonderful people Though my children are no longer SDA they still have good memories of summer camp at Wawona, pathfinders, bikeathons, etc. BUT despite the good memories of times past there is no denying that the DOCTRINES of the DENOMINATION, all the upholding of Ellen White, etc. is just NOT Biblical. As Ross said "Love the people hate the blasphemy taught to them and by them." Francie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12418 Registered: 12-2003  |
Adventism was my LIFE until my mid-40's. I have A LOT of good memories from the first 40+ years of my life, and Adventism made my life. But now I see that Adventism isn't just like other churches which get attached to unique practices or legalisms. Adventism is founded on completely unbiblical doctrines. According to the definition of the church revealed in the New Testament, Adventism cannot properly be referred to as a "church". It is a religious organization, but its core tenets are heresies. Its founders believed Jesus was not eternal, almighty God; they believed he had a sinful nature; they believed his did not complete the atonement at the cross; they believed man did not have an immaterial spirit, that he was only physical. They believed that Satan made claims against God that God had to answer, that he became jealous of Jesus whom God exalted to equality with Himself. They believed that Satan continues to battle Jesus for the souls of men. They have never renounced any of those beliefs, and they continue to be the foundation of Adventism, even for those who claim to be evangelical. You cannot build the true gospel on top of false foundational beliefs. If you try to be evangelical and stay in Adventism, you embrace false doctrines which are doctrines of demons while claiming to believe in Jesus. These two things are atntithetical. The people within Adventism are deceived. Because we love them, we must continue to point out that Adventism is not Christian. Adventists need to HEAR the gospel and realize that what they have been taught is not the gospel. Jesus is much, much more than they have learned. He is enough! He is amazing and real and powerful, and His blood has completed all that needed to be done for our forgiveness. We can't say it's not ours to "judge". We are told to discern good from evil; Paul says that by internalizing the word of God, we will be able to approve what is excellent and discern between good and evil. If we do not do that, we are turning away from reality. We are asked to discern and know, and we must assume that the Adventists we know need to hear the true gospel. Knowing what we know, the most sincere Adventist is likely to say he believes in God, but he may not have placed his faith in the Lord Jesus alone for salvation. We must assume they need to know the truth. We cannot compromise with something so deceptive it mimics the truth while holding its members in deep emotional and spiritual bondage. It's a matter of eternal life and death. Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1319 Registered: 12-2007 |
AMEN Colleen ! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1796 Registered: 7-2007 |
For myself; when I was an Adventist, I LOVED those sermons I heard occasionally, that were "grace-filled," but I could never put my weight down completely on them or on Ephesians 2:8-9.... "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." I couldn't quite believe that verse really meant just what it said; because I also believed Ellen White who said that no one should ever believe or say that they are saved. What I did was to take both Ellen White and the Bible metaphorically - which added up to zero, because I STILL couldn't put my weight down on Jesus' finished work. So, Alison1, it's possible for someone to be saved, while still in the Adventist church if they don't know or believe what Ellen White taught. Dale Ratzlaff was saved before God led him out of that church. But it's just about impossible for someone to be saved while an SDA if not completely impossible if they believe Ellen White. The SDA church teaches that she is an inspired prophet of God, so when a person believes that both she and the Bible both have the same inspiration - and they know what she taught about salvation - I just can't see how they can be truly saved. They can't because they cannot fully accept Jesus' finished work for themselves. As for myself, when I was an SDA, I couldn't. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1797 Registered: 7-2007 |
A true church doesn't add ANYTHING for salvation. All a person needs to do is accept Jesus' sacrifice for himself/herself. Even Adventists SAY that they believe in grace alone. But what do they do? They do require their members to abstain from pork and keep the Sabbath in order to be saved. Meaning they teach that if you DON'T do those things, you'll be lost. So false churches are often VERY subtle. Martin Luther didn't leave the Catholic church - he wanted to reform the Catholic church. Instead the Catholic church left him. |
