| Author | Message | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 406 Registered: 5-2009  |
When I first came to the forum to lurk, I wondered if all these formers belonged to the same church (local) or denomination or if they started something new. It was a bias I came with because of what I'd always believed about denominations. I thought all denominations thought they were right and they had "the truth." It was a competition of sorts. I thought all Methodists were trying to make Baptists, Methodists (for example), in the same way that Adventists want to make every other Christian, Adventist. I thought all Christian denominations had their own version of the 27 Fundamental Beliefs. (So who is to say who is right and who is wrong?) I did not understand that Christians see other Christians as part of the Body of Christ. I did not fully understand that things like eschatalogy and Calvinism vs. Arminianism aren't things to divide the Body over. I did not understand that Christians agreed on the most important thing, The Gospel and there was room for love and respect in areas of disagreement. (In Adventism, it's pretty black and white, you're either one of us or you're one of "them.") Certainly, I didn't understand that unity in the Body (local churches working together) was Christ's prayer, not a sign of the times. There was so much misinformation that clouded my understanding of what Christian life was really like. Today, I am loving the fact that in my small Bible study group at church there are women from all walks of life, who have different church backgrounds, different traditions, different ways to approach the Bible, yet we all learn from each other and take away from each tradition what God has for us. They show me every week, what it's like to be part of the Body of Christ. The concept is fresh and new and beautiful. So, what are the misconceptions you had about "Sunday" churches/denominations that came out of Adventist propaganda and misinformation? | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 407 Registered: 5-2009 |
One more thing to share. When we first started "shopping" for a church, we first went to a Bible Church. When we figured out that they didn't have a teaching curriculum (it was more babysitting) for children under age 4, we mentioned to them that it was a concern for us (because all of our children are under 4). They suggested checking out the local Baptist church because they had just invested a lot of money in their children's department. Fast-forward a couple of weeks, we visited a Baptist church (not the one we were referred to, but another one in another town) and when we arrived to get a tour of the children's area, the director asked what our church background was. When we told her "Adventist," she said "oh, we have several of those in the area if you want to us to help you find one." We said, "No, no, that's exactly what we DON'T want." (We've since gotten to know her, she knows our story and we laugh about that first meeting. We've begged her not to ever refer someone to an Adventist church again.  ) These are just 2 examples of how Christian churches are not competing. They see each other as the Body of Christ and there to serve and help people to get connected. Would an Adventist church EVER refer you to a Baptist church, an Evangelical Free Church or a Presbyterian church for ANYTHING?! I think not. It blew my mind that you can do cross-denomination membership transfers, and baptism in one, is good enough for the other! It shows me that it's all about Jesus and it's all about the Cross. I asked a friend the other day if he thought, if a Seventh-day Baptist wanted to transfer his membership to an SDA church, if they would accept it (without rebaptism and without studies and without taking the vows that you believe in the remnant and EGW). We know they wouldn't accept a "Sunday" church transfer...but what about another Sabbatarian transfer? I think not. Okay...I'll be quiet now. Let's shred some myths about Christian denominations. | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2011 |
I just had an SDA pastor refer me to a messianic temple. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 776 Registered: 7-2004  |
We had an interesting experience along those lines when we were looking for the "right" church. One church we visited was a small contemporary Lutheran group that was meetng at one of the local SDA churches. The service was good, although the group was a little smaller than what we were hoping to find. And there was simply no way we could attend an not be reminded of what the SDA symbology around us meant. We discussed it openly with the pastor who suggested about a half dozen churches where he thought we might fit in well and where he personally knew the pastor was on fire for the Gospel. One was a Lutheran church, but the rest of the list included a Vineyard Church, a Churches of Christ Church, and a couple of non-denominational churches. Yes, he belonged to a particular denomnation. And yes, he believed that his denominational beliefs were more consistent with Scripture than some of the other churches he was referring us to. But he knew that the Gospel was prominent in each of these churches, and was comfortable recommending any of these knowing that they are part of the body of Christ. What a difference from the Remnant arrogance. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12353 Registered: 12-2003  |
Same experience, Cloudwatcher. It was disorienting to realize that Christianity is essentially one consistent core, that there are differences of interpretation on secondary issues. What was really interesting is that as an Adventist, I understood those secondary issues to be primary--more primary, in fact, than the Lord Jesus. We consistently have people ask us where our group worships, if there's another former Adventist group or church in another area...and we consistently tell them that they need to become part of a gospel-teaching church where the Bible is taught. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1884 Registered: 6-2006  |
Cloudwatcher, I really appreciate you posting this. It makes sense to me now, why my husband didn't want to study the Bible with me for a long time because he was afraid of the Lutheran slant. Even when I insisted it was Bible only, and it would be completely non-denominational he was afraid and wouldn't do it. Clearly there's another example of fear being instilled in SDA members. As a never-been though, I can turn this around. When I met my hubby, I didn't know or understand enough about the SDA church that I just figured since my hubby and his family loved Jesus, it would all be okay. Eventually, I fell madly in love and it was too late to turn back once we were married and I learned the truth about SDA doctrine. You see, when I was dating, I knew enough NOT to date a Mormon or a JW, and didn't have enough in common with my Catholic friends to be interested in that. However I was totally open to dating or marrying other protestants. So, lesson learned ~ it's really important to ground kids in the gospel and equip them with a good sense of Biblical Christian doctrine. One thing that's fun is worshipping with friends from other denominations or having special music come in from other churches. We're a semi-traditional Lutheran church so there's not a lot of hands raised during worship music. (Pastor calls us the "frozen chozen") However, once a year a black gospel choir from the local Pentecostal church comes and rocks the house. You should see how excited the congregation gets when they come. It's awesome and we love having them. Neat to mix it up! When you think about it, the letters that Paul sent out to the different churches indicate that each one had it's own distinctions. They were in different places and I would imagine had their cultural differences. Yet, they were all part of the body as well. I like to go back and think about how they would approach worship. Leigh Anne | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1661 Registered: 3-2009 |
Colleen says: That is exactly my question in my post about "Christian Fundamental Beliefs." What is the essential core of Christianity? What is absolutely necessary to belief to be a Christian? What is the belief that if I don't believe, I will not be considered a Christian? If I see a list of beliefs for a denomination and I don't see X belief, what is that X belief that will flag that denomination as pseudo-Christian? Would you please answer in the other post "Christian Fundamental Beliefs" so this one won't be derailed? I really am interested in knowing what you think of it. Thanks. Hec | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1885 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hec, why don't you study the early church? The whole reason they had the council at Nicea was to establish the fundamental Christian beliefs. It's not that hard! Leigh Anne | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 816 Registered: 10-2006 |
You know, I think part of the reason Adventists don't understand the denomination thing is because they say their "Bible studies" are for ALL denominations. It is clearly deceptive. I was taught to when responding to requests for Bible studies (we sent out thousands of cards to people that they could send to Keene, TX to request Bible studies) to tell the victim (and I chose that word carefully) that I was a respresentative for Amazing Facts (or whatever program they responded to) and that these Bible studies were for all denominations. Neither I nor any person in the church was EVER involved directly with any of those ministries. It was all a lie! If they asked what denomination I was, I was supposed to say that telling my church or denomination would be devisive. THESE Bible studies went by the Bible and the Bible only so any (every) Christian should feel comfortable with the things being taught. If they pressed the issue, I was to tell them that yes I was a Seventh-day Adventist, but that my denomination shouldn't matter since I went by the Bible and the Bible only and any true Christian did, too. Of course, all Christians go by the Bible and they Bible only so these are safe and effective in teaching the Bible. I also handed out AF videotapes (Uncle Dougie's prophecy seminar) with the Bible studies to make them more effective and fun. Those Bible studies would NEVER be approved of by ANYONE who knew what they were teaching. They taught the state of the dead, not to eat unclean foods, the investigative judgment and that Seventh-day Adventistism is the only acceptable denomination - God's end time remnant church. No other Christian denomination teaches these things! I don't know if my experience was unique in that way or not, but the deception bothered me even then when I agreed with Adventist doctrine enough to do Bible studies with people in order to bring people into the church. In short, I don't think Adventists trust other denominations because they know somewhere deep down inside that they were deceptive themselves. The end justifies the means philosophy prevailed at least in my local church. If it resulted in getting someone into God's end time church it was OK. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1664 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thanks, Leigh Anne, for the suggestion. People here are taking my question as if I were a lazy bum that cannot study on my own. I can do that. But to comment on you comment, if it isn't so hard, how come there are so few who are willing to commit an answer? Hec | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1890 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hec, you are the king of blanket statements. I've given you an answer 3 times now. Obviously you think I'm full of crap. (there's a nice blanket statement for you!) However, if you check the fundamental beliefs thread I took another stab at it. Hopefully you care. I'm a slow typist so I hope you at least give me credit for the length of my post. Leigh Anne | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 409 Registered: 5-2009 |
Joyfulheart, this statement is profound: "I don't think Adventists trust other denominations because they know somewhere deep down inside that they were deceptive themselves." It is so true... when you deceive and have something to hide, you end up not trusting other people. So, so true! | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 286 Registered: 2-2007 |
Cloudwatcher and Joyfulheart: this is so true about the deception! Last week I cooked a pot of beans and took them over to my sda mom. She was poking around in the pot and asked...what kind of meat is in here? I told her it was smoked turkey sausage and she was fine with that. I have NEVER taken anything with pork in it to her house. I told my husband basically what cloudwatcher said...when you deceive and have something to hide you end up not trusting other people. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1744 Registered: 7-2007 |
I thought "Sunday" churches believed that Sunday was holy. I had no idea that if a Christian knows what the Bible says, he or she knows that Jesus is the Sabbath now! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9065 Registered: 3-2004  |
As a kid growing up with Catholic cousins, I knew the RCC did not consider Sunday the Sabbath as SDAs consider Saturday. As for the others who went to church on Sunday I used to wonder why I saw them in the stores and restaurants after church on Sunday. Guess they knew that Jesus is their Sabbath rest. Diana L | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2009 |
I remember SDAs saying things like, "they don't even KEEP the day they think it's Sabbath! They just go to church and move on with their lives!" | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1667 Registered: 3-2009 |
Grace alone says: NO, Leigh Anne, I don't thing so. That word is not even one that is in my vocabulary. I don't think so of anybody. If I would, I wouldn't be asking questions here. I appreciate any and everyone who takes the time to answer my questions. Maybe sometimes, I would like to see other people comments too. That does not mean that I don't appreciate your input. Other times I may just be waiting for more input to give my reply. Please forgive me if I gave you that impression. Please take any reply to the other thread so we won't in any way derail this one. Thanks. Hec, the king of blanket statements. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1745 Registered: 7-2007 |
Leigh Anne; Please read John 13:35 & Luke 6:45 Hec; Fundamentals 1. Believe there is a God. 2. Believe that He created you and you have sinned against Him breaking the relationship He desires with you. 3. You can do NOTHING on your own behalf to justly pay for your sin or restore that relationship. 4. You can be saved only by fully trusting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ ,who is fully God and man, on your behalf. Salvation is a free gift not of works obtained by faith through grace alone | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1025 Registered: 2-2008  |
The misconception I thought that Sunday churches had was that they "kept" a Sunday as a worship day. I was surprised that: 1) No one said "happy Sunday" 2) That no one said that they were happy for Sundays so that they could worship God or to have a day of rest. 3) That they truly worshipped God... I didn't realize how much I worshipped the Sabbath day until I went to a Sunday church and saw how much they worshipped God instead of the day that they worshipped on. I'm sure there are others... but this was the biggy for me. vivian | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 784 Registered: 5-2009 |
So, so true, Vivian! |
