| Author | Message | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2011 |
Why is the Bible Considered "God's Word" when in reality it was written by men. God was not there telling them every syllable to write down. The explanation that I always get is that it was "inspired." Well I can find a whole library of books that are written by authors who were "inspired." What about the Quran, the Mishna, the Talmud, the Book of Morman? Those are all equally "inspired," but have very different teachings in them. Can they all be the Word of God even though they don't always all teach the same thing about God? | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 392 Registered: 7-2010 |
Can any of those books you mention do this? For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (Hebrews 4:12-13) God's Word is just that powerful and I've seen it convict the heart of a person even over the internet. Can the other books you mention do that? All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2Timothy 3:16-17) Not all books that make a claim such as this have the power to convict the heart of a person. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the heart, and without the power of the Holy Spirit, they would just be words that have little to no meaning. And yes God's Word even convicts the heart of an unbeliever. Every demon that Jesus encountered knew exactly who He was. Why? Because even the demons believe and tremble. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. (James 2:19) | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 290 Registered: 2-2010 |
Natofborg, I just wrote you on the thread about how God talks to us. There is a link on there that I think will be very helpful in your questions on the Bible. This was a hard one for me too, but your inquiring mind will be a huge asset. Don't give up asking questions. You will find the truth, God promises that when we seek Him with ALL OUR HEART, we WILL find Him. He is faithful! | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 412 Registered: 5-2009  |
Natofborg, your question is intriguing and one that many people ask. I don't have a ton of time to write you a detailed message (but can later on, if you'd like) but I want to quickly tell you what did it for me...as far as knowing that the Bible was THE Word of God and not just a compilation of religious writings from a bunch of men. First, the Bible is cohesive and consistent throughout. All these different people, from all walks of life and in a span of several hundred years all writing cohesively with ONE running thread (Jesus). Remember, this is before computers, internet and any other possible collaboration. In addition, there is a constant theme of prophesy and fulfillment. How in the world could some human write something and it be fulfilled hundreds of years later, to a T? How do you orchestrate your own virgin birth, crucifixion (whose details were prophesied of 400 years before) and predict your own resurrection? Maybe you think all those are fairy tales too... I don't know. But IF the Bible is real, it makes some pretty extraordinary claims and promises that could only be true if there really is God and if it really is God's Word. It's either all true and truly God's Word, or all a big fat lie. God used men to write and preserve His very words. It's not their version of what God inspired them to write. God breathed it into existence, much like He created the Universe (can't explain that either). It's all a mere intellectual exercise though, if you're not willing to surrender (give it a try!) completely to it and experience God himself, for yourself through its pages. You'll then KNOW for sure. So much more I want to say. I know you have access to the member's section. Feel free to look me up on FB or email me if you want to keep chatting. | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2010 |
Natofborg, I know there are many who believe the Bible must be true because of fulfilled prophecy, or it's consistency in theme from beginning to end. Although I see these concept as important and know God can use them for his purposes, it wasn't enough for me. I had many questions, very basic ones like: "How do I know the Bible has been translated accurately?" or "How can I trust that all the writings that are in the Bible are the ones that should be there?" This was really discouraging to me because I couldn't see a way to have absolute resolution to these issues. I did know one thing though, I had called myself a Christian for about 40 years of my life but I didn't understand the Bible. I secretly hoped there was something more to be revealed than what Adventism had handed me over the years so I began asking God to teach me what the Bible was all about. One thing that stood out as I began studying was a text God put in my heart way back - John 5:38-40 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. What this text says to me is that, you can know and understand and memorize and instruct about what you read in Scripture but if it doesn't witness about Jesus, there is something missing or off-track. This was a revelation to me as I now new I didn't have an Bible problem, I had a Jesus problem. It was only after submitting to Jesus' authority that my questioning and doubt I had with the Bible went away. I now know the Bible is true and can be trusted, not because of prophecy or understanding how many original manuscripts exist today, but because God's Spirit has revealed this to me. Check out this passage – it's awesome: 6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him— 10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor. 2 6-16 | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2009 |
Nowhitehats, Amen. In some ways, i think we explained 2 sides of the same coin (though you may disagree!) I'm guessing those passages won't carry any weight unless the reader first establishes the Bible's authority as the Word of God. I don't know. What are your thoughts, Natofborg? | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2010 |
Cloudwatcher, For me, it had a lot to do with your previous post about the "surrender" factor. It was only after surrendering to God and his revelation of himself in Jesus that I was able to see the more "common sense" reasoning as powerful and confirming. But it was definitely in that order - like I said, "I had a Jesus problem." and that's where God had to start with me. | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2011 |
Unfortunately, I don't see that hte Bible is consistent, especially in how it describes God. As for prophecy, I never understood it. It's so over my head I don't even try. Luckily, it's not something that I consider important right now. And yes, I know that I have some major issues with God (and yes, I've told Him many, many times over the years, even cussed Him out on more than a few occasions). I have no reason to trust God, which is what I assume you mean by "surrendering" to Him. I don't trust anyone who hasn't shown himself to be trustworthy to me. I must sound like a horrible person, but I can't lie about how I feel and what I think anymore. I can't pretend to be something that I'm not. Just writing this post has upset me to the point that I feel sick. Off to bed. Thank you so much to everyone for letting me be honest without making me feel badly for it. | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 415 Registered: 5-2009 |
Natofborg, I appreciate your honesty and transparency. Just to clarify, by prophesy, I don't mean those scary beasts of revelation that SDAs use to describe end-time events. Here's an example: John 19: 1 Then Pilate had Jesus flogged with a lead-tipped whip. 2 The soldiers wove a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they put a purple robe on him. 3 “Hail! King of the Jews!” they mocked, as they slapped him across the face. Then see Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed. Isaiah was written hundreds of years before Jesus was even born, but he foretold what would happen to Jesus. It's nothing symbolic or mysterious, just seeing the parallels between the Old Testament and their fulfillment in the New Testament. I will be praying for you in your quest for what's real and true. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2010 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z15FlTONVo Don't give up, Natalie! It's going to be better than anything you have ever imagined. I am still praying, and you are not unique in this. You are in good company. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12363 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree, Natalie! You're in good company; I'm praying for you, too. This will get better; the fact is that God is with you right now; you are here with us by His care and leading. I've found that sometimes I just have to open my eyes and believe what I see; I can rationalize anything; when God meets me, I am the one that must release my right to protect myself from "knowing" it's Him and accept the fact that He is with me because He promised He would be. There is no place where He is not. We don't recognize His existence because we suppress the knowledge of Him (Romans 1). But He cares for us; we simply have to believe the evidence--and the evidence is there. It's often not the evidence we expect or think we want, but it IS evidence, and His presence is always redemptive. We're glad you're here, Natalie! Colleen |
