| Author | Message | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 190 Registered: 7-2010  |
This is probably old news but I just discovered it today. It really disturbed me. http://www.theremnantstudybible.com/ | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2011 |
boy did I just send them a nasty email. Where do they get off using that name for their business as if htey have the monopoly on salvation??!!? I know that I should not have done what I did, but I have so much anger in me that to be completely honest, it felt really good to tell them off. That just makes it all the worse. I'm going to hell anyway, so what've I got to lose? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12360 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hmmm-Natofborg...I don't think you have the last word on whether or not you're going to hell! Anger at being deceived doesn't qualify you for hell! You might not recognize it yet, but I know that God led you here to become part of this online community. We understand what you're experiencing; we're here to support you and pray for you. And don't forget that God doesn't let evil get away with itself. Over and over through the Bible He reminds us that vengeance belongs to Him, and He will repay. We can thank Him, Natofborg, for the fact that He showed us that Adventism was not real truth and that He leads us on the path of learning to see reality and to see Jesus as the "truth in each circumstance", as the song says. Your being here is evidence of His care of you! Colleen | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2011 |
I don't htink it's my anger that qualifies me for admission to hell. I don't htink that any one church as the "real truth" and has all their facts and teachings correct. Each does the best they can with their undrestanding from my perspective. And I don't know if I was intentionally "deceived" or not. I believe that most Adventists truly believe what they state they believe. I don't believe there is some huge SDA conspiracy out there or anything. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1759 Registered: 7-2007 |
Natofborg; I know that I wasn't intentionally deceived when I was an Adventist either. It took a total miracle for me to be saved - for me to believe that Jesus REALLY DID pay ALL the price for my sins! (As an Adventist, I couldn't really "put my weight down" on Jesus the Atonement for my sins; because I thought salvation was partly up to me.) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1761 Registered: 7-2007 |
The only reason that we refer to people as unbelievers and in darkness, is because of our deep concern for their souls! I often express frustration with my sister who refuses to "see," because the gospel is so simple and I don't want her to be lost!  | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2011 |
using words like unbelievers and darkness to refer to people like myself does not come across as showing concern. It comes across as condescending and it definitely a fast way to push people (at least me) away. The gospel is not "easy to see" for myself, either, regardless of how hard I have been trying. Saying that something is incredibly simnple when speaking to someone who is struggling with it makes that person feel frustrated and stupid. Regardless of the intent when using terms like this, I think it's very important to consider how they are coming across to the "unbeliever" or even the "believer" who is struggling. I see nothing but myself being insulted and condemned (like I need THAT reminder of where I'm headed) when I read this thread using those words to describe people like myself. Maybe I need to take a break. I'm getting incredibly upset over this, so I'm stoppping my post here. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1762 Registered: 7-2007 |
Natalie; how would you describe someone who doesn't believe, then? I'm an American because I was born in the U.S. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what I'm called. I used to be an unbeliever, because I didn't believe - an unbeliever for over 50 years! It's what I was. Jesus loved me more than I could imagine and rescued me. He loves you too, more than you can imagine and longs to rescue you too. I'm like a beggar who found food and who wants to share my wonderful find with others! And it's the Word of God that says that unbelievers are in darkness. It says that the gospel is offensive to those who are perishing. Jesus didn't mince words with people either. If they were perishing, He didn't tell them they were okay! He wanted them to live - not die. What about me? I was in darkness for over 50 years! What if everybody had said: "that's okay. At least you're happy with your religion!" I would have been going to hell with a smile on my face! I'm SO GLAD that someone was willing to offend me!!! I was THERE. The gospel wasn't simple to me then. It was extremely complicated and confusing. And I wasn't stupid either. And I'm not saying you're stupid. You are apparently in the same area I was, not even five years ago! The devil had taken my will captive too. It's like being in a house you've lived in for years. If it's totally dark, neither you nor I could find our way around. But if we turn on a light switch, we can find our way around easily. That's the way it is for people who aren't saved. They're in darkness. Once they get saved, they can see that the gospel is really a simple gospel - just like turning on that light switch. Until then though, they are in a totally dark maze. A child in a burning house would be greatly offending if a big scary fireman rudely lifted him out of his bed and ran out of the house with him! Later, he would be glad he was alive! It may not sound like it, but I care about you, even though I don't know you. I want you to get to know Jesus Who rescued me too!!!!! Our mutual enemy, Satan, desperately wants to destroy all of us humans, and he'll tell you anything, anything to keep you out of Heaven, including that we fellow-beggars here on the forum are your enemy! | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 824 Registered: 10-2006 |
Natalie, I care and am so concerned about you. You seen to really want the truth. You're right that one denomination doesn't have all the truth. The problem is that as Adventists we were taught that we did. We were taught that all other churches are Babylon and deceived. The opposite may be true. Most Christian denominations do not have lists of fundamentals like Adventists do about so many things. The essential beliefs are salvation by grace through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross, repenting of our sin and turning to Jesus for forgiveness and knowing that He will come again. We give our lives to Jesus and through that process are born again. It is really a new life in Christ - and better than anything I ever imagined it could be! You said you see a different God in the Old Testament than the New. I'm thinking (correct me if I'm wrong) you see Him as waiting to zap you as soon as you do something wrong. The God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament, but don't worry about solving that problem now. There are good answers and you'll find them as we did. Give it time. If you don't trust the Bible, I wonder what you are trusting as your source of truth. Is it God Himself that you're having trouble trusting because of some of the things He did in the Old Testament? Lots of people have those same questions and concerns and THERE ARE ANSWERS!!!! Give us time and focus on what's important now. Most churches simply ask that you believe in Jesus as the one and only Son of God, repent of your sin, turn to Jesus thanking Him for taking the punishment we all deserve, askfor forgiveness and surrender to Him. I'm wondering why you think you're bound for hell. What is it? You sound hurt and angry, but that is not going to send you to hell. The only thing that will send you to hell is rejecting (or actually failing to accept and believe in and follow) Jesus. Most Adventists don't really understand who the Holy Spirit is. He is not an impersonal force. He is a member of the trinity - God Himself. The Holy Spirit was sent to us after Jesus' resurrection to live inside believers. Jesus could only be in one place at one time. The Holy Spirit reminds me to pray, comforts me when I hurt and convicts me of sin so I can turn from it. I am not doing the right things in my own strength. I am not sinless. Natalie, we all came out of Adventism with so many misconceptions about who God is and what Jesus accomplished on the cross. I know you're reading the gospels. That's a great thing - and I encourage you to stay there and read them over and over. I mentioned some books that I feel confident will help you. God are you there? Do You Care? Do You Know About Me? and Lord I Want To Know You both by Kay Arthur. I think Lord I Want to Know You would be the most helpful right now. I'd love to send you a copy if you'll read it. Ask Colleen in an e-mail for my e-mail address and I'll send it to you if you want it. (Colleen, you can give her my e-mail address if she requests it.) Natalie, you said you didn't want to be reminded that you're bound for hell. You don't have to be. Getting to know Jesus is an amazing adventure. Many Adventists don't know how to begin a relationship with Jesus. Lots of people here can help you if that's what you want. I so want that for you. It's really quite easy, but will cost you everything. Jesus has a plan for your life - and it's a good one. The Bible says that following Jesus won't always be easy and may bring hardship and rejection because of Him. He will walk through those things with you strengthening you all the way. He makes all - yes all things new. You can have a new start. Natalie, following Jesus is different than the things we learned in the Adventist church. Adventists claim to go by the Bible and the Bible only, but the truth is that they don't. Many doctrines are wrong and the result of proof-texting verses. They take many seemingly related verses out of context and create doctrines that the Bible as a whole doesn't teach. Some of those doctrine like the 2300 day prophecy (Investigative Judgment) cause so many people to give up on Jesus. I know you're hurting and I care. Lots of people here do. I hope you won't leave. Jesus died for you - to forgive your sin past, present and future. He did it because He loves you and wants you in heaven. He died to rescue you from hell. You obviously believe in hell. Do you believe in heaven? What do you think it takes to go to heaven. The Bible says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved. Essentially, that's the gospel. We believe and follow Jesus. The Holy Spirit works the change in us as we surrender to Him. He makes the changes He wants in us. It's not our own efforts that will just about always fail. Satan wants you and will do just about anything he can to keep you from turning to Jesus along for you salvation. I suggest that right now you announce outloud and with authority that you belong to Jesus and that you have been bought with His blood. Claim that truth. This is a spiritual battle. Ask Jesus to help you. Cry out to Him - outloud. He will. I KNOW He will!! I don't think I've ever written anything like this before on this site. Natalie, lots of people are here to help and pray for you as you unlearn the lies you (and all of us here) were taught and help you get grounded in the truth. Please don't give up. One more thing...you said that gospel was not easy to see for yourself. I know. The problem is described in 2 Corinthians 3. The is a veil that covers our eyes when we haven't yet found the truth about Jesus. The Bible says that it will be removed when we turn to Jesus trusting HIM ALONE - and not trying to earn salvation ourselves. Nothing we do can earn our salvation - NOTHING! Not keeping the Sabbath or obeying the ten commandments or paying tithe - nothing! The only thing that will save you Natalie is a relationship with Jesus. I wish I could talk with you in person and give you a hug. Knowing Jesus is worth it. E-mail me if you want. Natalie, you are loved - by Jesus, by me (even though we haven't met in person) and by many on this forum who are probably praying for you. It may seem like you're the only one going through this. Rest assured - you're not. Lots of people have these same hurts and anger coming out of Adventistism. Lots of people here - even if it hasn't seemed like it from the posts have been where you are. Let us love and support you through this time. You are loved, Natalie! Patty | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 825 Registered: 10-2006 |
Oh and by the way, Natalie... one of the things we all have to do in order to accept and begin a relationship with Jesus (and this is important) is realize that we are indeed sinners and without Jesus. Lost feels like a harsh word. Unbeliever feels harsh. The truth is though Natalie that when we are without a realtionship with Jesus and as you describe (bound for hell) we are lost. Lost does not mean that a person isn't a good person or less than someone else. It simply means that one has yet to find and begin a relationship with Jesus. Nobody here is less than anybody else. Those words, for lack of anything better just say that there is a clear dividing line between those who are presently a part of the kindgdom of God and those who are not - yet. An unsaved person is simply unsaved - as you put it "bound for hell." A saved person is one who has been born again by accepting and surrendering his or her life to Jesus. I'm wondering if you think that description is fair. What words would you choose to use to describe believers and unbelievers. Which camp do you think you're in? Just wondering... Again, we all care! Patty | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12370 Registered: 12-2003 |
Natalie, we're all from the same "stock"--we "get" what you're feeling. We've all been there. You don't have to "see" or understand now; you really only need to want to know. Ask God to show you what is real and true and to reveal truth to you. He is faithful. He is more than enough! Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1302 Registered: 12-2007 |
I just sent them a message also. "May God have mercy on your souls ! This is even worse that what the Mormons, JW's and Catholics have done with Gods word. We are PLAINLY told we are neither to ADD or subtract from Gods word. This turns Gods word to blasphemy. So sad for you and all who read and believe this book. It is not from God but from agents of Satan." | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1681 Registered: 3-2009 |
The Remnant Bible is not a good thing for Christians. But I think that the format is just the same as any study Bible. The Bible text is in the page and "text boxes" are intertwine with the rest of the Bible. They are clearly marked in boxes of a different background color. I don't think that it would do any more damage than any other Bible who has notes which are not according to the message of the Bible. With the exception that the SDAs who read it believe that those notes are also inspired by the HS. In that sense it is catastrophic. I don't think that any evangelical who reads the notes in a study Bible gives them the same wight as the Bible text. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12379 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, to be sure Ellen's words are distinct from Scripture's words...but the treatment of the Remnant Bible is to imply that Ellen's words can be read with Scripture without contradiction at the least and with reliable insight and interpretation at most. I can tell you that the non-SDA Christian apologists I know consider the Remnant Study Bible and the Andrews Study Bible to be dangerous and deceptive, both to Adventists and also to non-Adventists. The packaging is intended to suggest that the EGW quotes and the inclusion of her insights on the pages of Scripture mean that her comments and insights are authoritative and reliable. Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 738 Registered: 5-2002  |
Jim Valentine's presentation at the FAF weekend about how these distinctly Adventist "Study Bibles" developed and are being marketed was jaw-dropping! | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1306 Registered: 12-2007 |
"Jim Valentine's presentation at the FAF weekend about how these distinctly Adventist "Study Bibles" developed and are being marketed was jaw-dropping!" Any idea when the videos from FAF 2011 will be available ? I am trying to be patient,,,, but it aint easy. LOL | ||
| Natofborg Registered user Username: Natofborg Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2011 |
Here is the reply that I received from the president of this company. I only wish that he would get a whole slew of emails stating how offensive their name and Egg White Bible is! He's a good politician, I'll give him that. Like he would admit receiving negative emails! Dear Natalie, Thank you for your concern but I would like to reply to your email to Remnant. First of all we didn’t choose the name to offend you or anyone else and in the 25 years we have been shipping books around the world I haven’t heard even one complaint you’re the first to say that our name is offensive. As far as the comment that the name implies that we have “a monopoly on salvation” I disagree with that. We at Remnant believe there are many people of many faiths that will be saved and no one has an monopoly on it. I do believe the Bible, and the Remnant are not the ones with the monopoly but the ones who “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev. 12:17) and the testimony of Jesus is “the spirit of prophecy” ( Rev. 19-10) The protestant name The Church of Christ, isn’t offensive to me and I don’t believe that they believe they are the only ones that believe in Christ or that all other churches are the “Church of someone else” Same with the name Church of God I don’t believe they think that no one else believes in God but them. It’s a name. Also the largest Bible producer in the world Thomas Nelson congratulated us on the name and thought it was great and to my knowledge they had never heard of anyone being offended and they work with almost every denomination in the world. Once again I am sorry you’re so upset but your comment that the name is “A major turn off” to non Adventist just isn’t true and I work with Adventist and non Adventist every day. I do take these comments seriously or I wouldn’t even respond to it. I didn’t want you to think you were ignored. Rudy Hall President | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12381 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sigh. That's quite a defensive email, isn't it? "I am sorry you're so upset..." How often have I heard similar comments?! I'm sure Thomas Nelson did like the name; Thomas Nelson hasn't educated themselves about Adventism...but they know where there's $$ to be made, for sure. Sigh again. Freeatlast, we're still waiting. Richard has emailed the video editor, but we're still waiting...not sure when... Colleen | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 739 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jim Valentine's presentation was in a breakout session and I don't recall a camera being in the room, but I hope I am wrong about that because it is absolutely stunning what has been done! | ||
| Gregkleinig Registered user Username: Gregkleinig Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2010 |
G'day Natalie. I feel as though I understand where you are coming from at least somewhat. Reading your posts reminds me so much of my own sentiments even in recent times. Recently my actual brother told me that unless my boss says he believes in Jesus, acknowledges that he is a sinner and gets baptized he is not going to heaven because that's what it says in the Bible. I got quite annoyed at this attitude because the Bible also tells us not to judge and I think it must apply to this as well. My response to my bro was along the lines of 'is salvation limited to those who say the right magic words and jump through the right hoop?' God claims us as his children. That is His metaphor not ours. When did my sons become my sons? Was it when they could say; Da Da? Or is it sometime later than that when they 'recognize' they actually have some family performance obligations? I would like to suggest that my boys belonged to my wife and I at the instant of conception. To state the obvious they didn't have a clue that they were my boys for several years. When #5 got to puberty or thereabouts he realized he had an eye color that genetically he shouldn't have had. He was absolutely convinced he was adopted and didn't belong to us. But as the father, I knew he was mine, it didn't matter a hoot what he thought, he was mine. Now I'm going to tell you something that was the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with in my life. All my life I've been told by well meaning Christian folk that homosexuals go to hell and there are plenty of texts to support that sentiment. And I've heard it all about not having to practice etc. Well my beautiful intellectually, musically gifted, sensitive of others, #4 son is gay. We had our suspiscions from when one of his first sentences he ever spoke was; " mummy, get the doctor to change me into a girl and I can be a girl for you". He was not even 2 yrs old. When I found out he was gay I was on the next plane to where he was about 4000 klms away. I have hated homosexuals all my life but my boy needed to know one thing - his dad loved him no matter what and as much as is possible we would do this journey together. He was about 18 at that time. I cried every spare moment I could find for 6 months. That was about 4 years ago. have grown up a lot in these last 4 years. My boys brokeness has made me love him fiercely. I grew up with a father that left me very disenchanted with the idea of a 'loving' heavenly father. But my 5 boys they reckon I'm the best dad in the world. Sadly I know the truth. My point being that I want to be the best dad in the world. It doesn't matter a hill of beans (to borrow one from you Yanks) that my own dad sucked at the job, I now know better. And if I can love my boy so fiercely then God who invented this whole family thing in the first place just does it even more fiercely. And I reckon if my children became mine years before they ever realized then we become God's children yearsbefore we ever realize. And some of us have got all sorts of brokenesses that make us not real good company in polite society but God the father he justs loves me all the more because of it. My son. He was born that way. And if I can love him so much that he can have my place in heaven if gays aren't allowed in then I hope God's love is bigger. And now I am crying again for the pain of all our brokenesses and it is raining gently here so I hope that's God doing his share of crying as well. I wish I could give you a hug Natalie. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1307 Registered: 12-2007 |
I wish I could give YOU a hug Gregkleinig. God bless you for rushing to your son and leaving him no doubt about your love for him. I would be absolutely heartbroken if I were to find out that one of my children or grandchildren were "gay" but that would not make them any less mine. I know there would be a great hurt and even disappointment, but no lack of love. One of my sister in laws has 3 sons and a daughter, her oldest son is gay. We found out several years ago, but had wondered since he was quite small because of his personality, mannerisms, etc. I dont see him often, and we do not discuss his sexual orientation at all. It is not my business. That is something that is between himself and God. To me he is just Jason. I know the Bible speaks against homosexuality as it speaks of other "sins". We are ALL sinners and "broken" in some way or other. God is our Judge and like you, I believe that God's love is bigger than our own. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9073 Registered: 3-2004  |
Greg, a big hug to you. You are a good Father. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12386 Registered: 12-2003 |
Greg, thank you. Colleen | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2009  |
I did Tweet Jim Valentine's Session at the FAF Weekend it was so packed with information I probably messed some of it up and I think by the end I was too busy picking my jaw up off the floor. To read all the Tweets from FAF 2011 visit Twitter and @RossBondReturns | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 785 Registered: 5-2009 |
When Jim Valentine showed us a GC bound in black leather, printed on thin, gilt-edged paper, it made me sick. A counterfeit Bible full of a fearful counterfeit gospel. And that was only one little bit of what he showed. |
