| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1667 Registered: 7-2007 |
Now I'm not trying to insult any Adventists who are lurking here. I too was an Adventist for over 50 years and these verses went over my head too!!! I'd like to start off with 1st John 2:12 "I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake." When I was an Adventist, I believed that only a person's PAST sins were forgiven day by day as the person asked forgiveness for them. Here John is writing a letter to believers telling them their sins are forgiven. The letter hasn't gotten to them yet. By the time the letter got to them, they would have committed more sins, yet their sins are forgiven!!! That means past, present and future sins of believers are forgiven!!! Here's another verse. Colossians 2:16,17 says: "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." When I was an Adventist, I'd skim over these quickly, figuring that the SDA church had an explanation for this somehow. They do have an explanation. They take all these Sabbaths that these verses are talking about, and reduce them from the three groupings in the verses, to two. First is the annual/seasonal Sabbaths called "feasts" or "festivals." Second is the monthly Sabbaths called new moon. Third are the weekly Sabbaths. The Adventists leaders simply take the third group and put them with the first group making the verse say: "a festival or a new moon or a festival." Anybody else have some verses to put down? | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 486 Registered: 4-2007 |
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| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1110 Registered: 7-2005  |
John 5:18 - "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." John was perfectly able to write that the Jews *THOUGHT* Jesus had broken the sabbath. He had written something else that carefully pointed out whether something actually happened, or whether people just *THOUGHT* it happened. John 19:21 - "Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that *HE SAID*, I am King of the Jews." So, John could have, but he didn't, write that the Jews *THOUGHT* Jesus broke the sabbath. He wrote that Jesus "HAD BROKEN" the sabbath. This is what was meant by the term "Lord of the sabbath." Matthew 12:8 - "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." If he is the Lord of the sabbath and he not only broke it himself, but instructed others to do so (ex: the lame man at the pool of Bethesda - John 5:2), what does that mean for us today? It means the sabbath commandment is not a MORAL law, but rather a ceremonial law. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1111 Registered: 7-2005 |
Another thing I noticed in John 5:18 is that John wrote that Jesus made himself equal with God. So for two reasons, the Jews sought to kill him. John stated the two reasons as fact, not as conjecture: 1. Jesus had broken the sabbath. 2. Jesus made himself equal with God. If the first part of the verse is not to be taken literally, then the second part of the verse should not be taken literally, either. However, if the second part of the verse is to be taken literally, that Jesus made himself equal with God, then the first part must also be taken literally. Jesus really did break the sabbath. I know that sounds really bad, but there it is, right there in black and white. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1669 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's another three verses: The last part of Revelation 19:10 says: "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Adventists use that to say that there will be a prophet in the last days church. When I go to Merriam-Webster dictionary on the internet, one of the meanings of "prophet" is: "an effective or leading spokesman for a cause, doctrine or group." So actually ANYONE who speaks the gospel to someone is a "prophet." But here's what the Bible says concerning prophets and Jesus. Hebrews 1:1,2 says: "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." So, as you can see, the prophets preceded Jesus. The prophets all FORETOLD Jesus. In the last days, God speaks by His Son rather than the prophets! "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." Matthew 11:13 So yes, the spirit of prophecy - all the prophets who preceded Jesus - testified of Jesus. They are the "testimony of Jesus." | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2388 Registered: 5-2007  |
How about Ephesians chapter two: V. 1 “you were dead” We are no longer dead. V.2 “once walked, following the course of this world” No longer walk the way the world does. V.3 “once lived in the passions of our flesh” No longer live according to the flesh. V.5 “were dead” “made us alive” Sins, all sins forgiven. V.6 “seated us with him (Jesus) in the heavenly places” Declared already seated in heaven…done, praise God! V.8 “you have been saved” Done, end of story, praise God! V.10 “we are his workmanship” What God does is perfect, complete and is not of our own work! V.11 “at one time (we lived in the flesh)” God declares we are accounted as no longer living in the flesh. V.12 “were at that time separated from Christ” No longer and never will be separated (Rom. chapter 8) from Christ, wow! V.13 “been brought near (to God the Father) by the blood of Christ” Remember, we are seated with Christ in heaven. Who is there to unseat us? V.18 “access in the Spirit to the Father” We have this access now! V.19 “fellow citizens” We are members of the kingdom of God…now! There is no future judgment to determine if we can have something that is already ours! Fearless Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12217 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yup, Honestwitness--He broke the Sabbath because in the Him the Sabbath is realized! He was the reality which the Sabbath foreshadowed! It was as if He was saying, as He broke the Sabbath: "Look at Me! I'm HERE!" For sure 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 used to go right over my head. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord...Sure, I used to think, the next they know, they'll be with the Lord (whether that's a week or a millennium from now...) I just had to totally ignore the plain meanings of the words! Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1671 Registered: 7-2007 |
Some more verses that goes with that, Colleen, is Philippians 1:21-24 where Paul tells how badly he wishes he could "depart and be with Christ," but that it's more needful for the people he's writing to, that he "remain in the flesh." The Seal of God is explained in Ephesians 1:13,14 which says: "In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 808 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Galatians 2:20-21 NASB Actually all of Galatians, but especially chapters 3 and 4 and Romans 7, too. | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2010  |
The Preamble to the Decalogue that identifies to whom God gave THOSE explicit commands Exodus 20:1-2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:1-2&version=NASB) 1 Then God spoke all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. God again repeating to whom he gave the Sabbath in Ezekiel 20:10-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2020:10-12&version=NASB) 10 So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. 12 Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. Likewise-- Deuteronomy 5:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut%205:15&version=NASB) Exodus 31:13 & 16-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2031:13,16-17&version=NASB) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1674 Registered: 7-2007 |
And more verses along the line of Wiredog's verses are: Deuteronomy 5:2-3 where Moses is telling Israel that God made a covenant with them that He didn't make with their fathers. Deuteronomy 4:13 where Moses identifies that covenant as the Ten Commandments. Hebrews 8:13 where God has made that old covenant obsolete. Hebrews 9:15-17 where it says it takes the death of the Testator [Jesus] for the testament to come into force. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1675 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's a verse comparing the covenants... The "ministry of death, written and engraved on stones" compared to the "ministry of the Spirit" - 2nd Corinthians 3:7-8. |
