| Author | Message | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 223 Registered: 9-2006 |
You many have noticed that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg, of "pantheism" and corn flakes fame, keeps turning up in Adventist discussions. The book that helped seal his fate with the SDA church was called, "The Living Temple," and was published in 1903. Very few people have ever read this book, over 500 pages long, partly because of its size, and also because they were content with the official description and dismissal of its ideas and author. Well, Kellogg was not, strictly speaking, a pantheist (all is God), but he was a panentheist, believing that God was in all. Kellogg's ideas are clearly not Christian. I also believe his ideas have taken the SDA health message to its own logical conclusions, and the leadership did not like the religious implications. Now, 108 years later, Kellogg is very relevant to current Adventist thought, and appears more philosophically consistant in his thinking on health and spirituality than many SDA authors. Where many authors have not articulated a coherent message as how to healthy food and living practices improve our relationship to God, Kellogg boldly goes into great detail how eating is a religious sacrament. Here's a delightful little sample from "The Living Temple": Under the heading, "How to Have a Clear Head": "The man who desires to have a clear head, a brain keenly alive to the subtle influences of the universe about him, alert to respond to every call made upon it by the bodily organs under its supervision, ready to receive impressions from the infinite source of universal thought, and capable of thinking the high thoughts of God after him, must live simply, abstemiously, naturally, and must avoid every harmful food and inferior food. He will select the choicest of food stuffs." "Talmage says that 'many a man is trying to do by prayer what can only be done by correct diet.' Certain it is that earnest prayer and pure diet together accomplish what would be impossible, attempted by either agency alone." "Every intelligent human being who recognizes this great truth, the universal unity of being, the absolute incessant dependence upon the infinite indwelling presence, will no longer be able to call some things sacred, other things common. All things become sacred. Every eating and drinking is a sacrament, a partaking of God's substance sacrificed for our sustenance...Religion is a natural thing. To be perfectly natural is to be perfectly spiritual." What is your reaction to Kellogg's statements here, and about his thinking in general? It would be great if a well-grounded Christian with a medical or health background would review "The Living Temple." Martin C | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7063 Registered: 9-2006  |
Part quote" To be perfectly natural is to be perfectly spiritual." The guy had no knowledge of spirituality in Jesus. Spirituality is on a higher plain that the natural man, the natural man cannot take part is spirituality whatsoever no matter how or what you eat. Jesus clearly demonstrates this in John 4:31 In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. John 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. John 4:33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Again Jesus demonstrates this in John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. True Spiritual has nothing to do with this flesh, which is to perish and indeed is in the process of perishing, and in spirit means exactly that, in spirit and apart from this natural man, rather the natural man has to be put under subjection. In Corinthians I 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: Corinthians I 9:27 the writer says, But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. The Holy Spirit can bypass any illness, the dullest brain,to speak with that spirit that is within a man, woman or child. You can eat possum and grits for lunch and then kneel your heart to God and be carried away above this body, this earth and all it cares and strife, and rise above the shadows to that true worship in spirit and in truth. That is my first reaction, have you got time to listen to the rest? River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12171 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my goodness! Kellogg sounds EXACTLY as I understood the "health message" as an Adventist—I just hadn't had it explained in that kind of integrated way. Reading the excerpt above, however, I'm struck by how much he sounds like the Unity idea...or the New Age idea...of the internal "Christ consciousness". Richard has an old college friend who has become a member of the Unity movement. (I won't call it a church.) They post their services online, and once in a great while we watch a service--just to see what they say. The "pastor" always initiates the service by taking in a great "cleansing breath" and then addressing "Oh Father-Mother god"...and admonishing the congregants to get in touch with the Christ within them. Kellogg's references to being alert to receive impressions from the "infinite source of universal thought" reminds me of the Unity words...and also of Carl Jung and his universal archetypes. Even though EGW denounced Kellogg as a pantheist and took him out of the way so he couldn't threaten her (my version of her black-listing him), he actually made the health message make cohesive "sense". His statement that "to be perfectly natural is to be perfectly spiritual" actually does articulate the goal and ultimate belief of Adventism. To Adventism, sin is an "unnatural" state, and Jesus came to show us how to bring our "bodies-plus-breath" back into compliance—all without acknowledging a spirit which is naturally dead and must be brought to life. In fact, scattered throughout this week's Sabbath School lesson on "stress" are references to plain food, rest, and exercise as essential biblical principles of stress management. It even makes the point that God provided Elijah with plain food, water, and sleep to restore him after running from Jezebel before he went to Mt. Horeb. Moreover, the lesson quotes EGW saying that Jesus was often found "in some secluded place, meditating, searching the Scriptures, or in prayer. From these quiet hours He would return to His home to take up His duties again, and to give an example of patient toil" (DA, p. 90). (Never mind the fact that there were no portable Scriptures for Jesus to take to secluded places in order to spend time searching them...) The entire lesson focusses on stress, awkwardly trying to make the Bible prescribe lifestyle as a means of relieving stress. WRONG! Stress is a natural state; the antidote to stress is trusting the Lord Jesus, being made alive by His Spirit, and surrendering the stuff of life to Him as we become aware of the issues around us. Kellogg's descriptions above really describe the way I understood health and "righteousness by diet" as an Adventist. I deeply believed that my food would affect my ability to perceive the Holy Spirit, that eating meat could cause cancer and would shorten my life, etc. I wouldn't have articulated it as clearly as did Kellogg, but I did believe that "to be perfectly natural is to be perfectly spiritual." Absolutely. It was all about keeping the "body temple" healthy for the Holy Spirit, because He functioned in our brains. Wow! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3549 Registered: 10-2004  |
Colleen,
But what about the fact that God provided Elijah with meat to eat after running from Ahab?! Oh wait, EGW deleted that part from the historical narrative... Jeremy | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 871 Registered: 7-2004 |
I found this to be fascinating. I feel that Dr. Kellogg, though eccentric, was demonized by the church and by her. http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw67.htm Here is an excerpt..... William H. Grotheer has this to say about the book The Living Temple, "Few today really know what the book is all about, for few have ever seen a copy. I recall, after learning about the existence of the book, of obtaining a copy on loan from a history professor at Andrews University. To my surprise, the major portion of the 568 page book, involved physiology, anatomy and principles of health and hygiene. The first fifty pages contained philosophical concepts which were subject to 'question' and even in these it was difficult to discern 'the deadly heresies'. When I returned the book to Dr. Vande Vere, I commented on this point, and he remarked that unless one knew what Ellen White had written about the book, a casual reader would not see the error charged to it. "At the time of publication in 1903, those who favored a wide circulation for the book, declared, 'it contains the very sentiments that Sister White has been teaching.' (ibid, p. 52) in fact Kellogg himself maintained that the views expressed in his book were in harmony with Ellen White's chapter, 'God in Nature' found in Education. (John Harvey Kellogg, M.D., p. 185) On this point, I have personally, on several occasions, conducted an experiment with different audiences in discussing this issue. I compiled a series of quotations from Education and Living Temple, and asked those listening, as I read, to indicate from which book they were taken. At no time did anyone actually identify the quotations correctly." (Watchman, What of the Night, 12-94, p. 5-6. Emphasis supplied.) | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 257 Registered: 5-2009 |
Years ago the biography channel used to run biographies of people other than criminals, entertainment stars, or athletes. I saw a bio of JH Kellogg that ran a couple of times. He was eccentric. He was married but he & his wife never consummated their marriage. They had children - adopted children. IIRC he & his brother had a falling out as well over the cereal business. So JHK had a falling out with his church, & his own family. It appears, if the bio channel bio is accurate, that there is a whole 'rest of the story' that SDAs never have heard. Watching the bio on TV was embarrassing. They did also tell of the connection to SDAism. I think overall as I recall that they were relatively fair & factual, rather than scathing &/or sensational. I have no idea how accurate the book may be on physiology or otherwise medical info. The physio could be factual - but facts can always be twisted. And certainly the info could have been misused by him J9 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12173 Registered: 12-2003 |
J9--I have also understood what you say above to be true. Kellogg was eccentric, to be sure! In fact, his health conditioning center seemed to offer a lot of odd contraptions and treatments (including enemas, etc.) that seemed to reflect his decidedly unbiblical approach to sex and bodily functions. There used to be quite a strong just-under-the-surface perception among Adventists that "living like the angels" (i.e. as Kellogg and his wife lived, not consummating) was more godly than normal marriage. Many couples tried to abstain except to have their children. Y'know, the way EGW (leaving Kellogg out of it) wrote about husbands and wives and what was appropriate and what was not--that alone should be a red flag that we're dealing with a false prophet... Colleen |
