| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1603 Registered: 7-2007 |
Years ago, while I was an SDA, I went to the SDA campmeeting in the redwoods of Northern California. I noticed that there were a lot of elderly people there. Most, if not all of them had such unhappy faces, that even I as an SDA was surprised. (It was many years later before the Lord opened my eyes to the wrongness of that religion. The unhappy faces didn't cause me cognitive dissonance or anything. It's only in looking back that I can see what was wrong.) Anyway; with a "gospel" that is no gospel at all, because the adherent has to do HIS PART; NO WONDER those faces were so utterly devoid of joy. Check out this quote by Ellen White. (I think I posted it not long ago - but it's worth posting again. It SO describes the religion!!! This is from "The Great Controversy," chapter 24 called "The Holy of Holies," where Ellen White is talking about the condition of the believer when Jesus comes back. quote: "Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil." The Bible is clear that when a person is saved - that's right - saved [for any Adventists lurking here], (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2nd Timothy 1:9 & Titus 3:5); their sins - past, present and future are forgiven! 1st John 2:12 is obviously saying that! And besides, the Bible couldn't say that that a person is saved if their future sins weren't forgiven!  | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 474 Registered: 4-2007 |
Obviously you’re one of those OSAS antinomians, free to rape, pillage and murder. Oh sure, God ‘saves’ us but it’s up to us to STAY saved, but because of your hatred for the Sabbath you have rejected the only means to do so. REPENT and return unto Ellen and earn your salvation through your good intentions of keeping and doing. John the Curmudgeon | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1604 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes, Adventism, being a cult; doesn't have the Holy Spirit, so they have NO idea how grace could possibly work. They don't understand grace and without the Holy Spirit, they have no idea how depraved and Pharisee-like their hearts actually are!  The only way for cults to keep their members "in line" is to throw in a little legalism, a few rules so that their people LOOK good. But it's only a veneer and nothing deeper. That's why one hears stories of Catholic priests abusing children, etc. Then when people LEAVE the cults and start walking by the Spirit instead of being legalistic - well, then they think like John's example! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12113 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, so true, Asurprise. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1605 Registered: 7-2007 |
If only Adventists (and J. Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, etc.) would accept the Jesus of the Bible, Who saves entirely, instead of ADDING to His work. The scary thing is, if someone is trying to partly save/keep saved themselves; they haven't accepted the free Gift. They haven't accepted Jesus as their Savior, so they aren't saved. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1557 Registered: 3-2009 |
River, please don't make fun of my attempt to write a short story. I don't know how to, but once I heard an illustration that I'll try to repeat here. Once upon a time there was a man who was walking alongside the road carrying a heavy burden on his shoulders. He was tired and sweaty. Along came a pick up and stopped. The driver asked the man if he wanted a ride. He gladly accepted. He got up on the back of the pick up and away they went. A while later, the driver looks back through his rear view mirror and sees the man sitting on the back of the pick up still carrying the burden on his shoulders. He stops, and ask the man why is he carrying that burden, to put it down so he can rest. To what the man replied, "Oh, no. I couldn't do that. You have been kind enough to give me a ride without having to carry my burden too." So away they went, and they arrived at their destination. Sometimes, that's what some people do. They accept the ride (salvation, gift) and some give it all to Jesus, others still carry some of their own burden. Are they not saved because the carry some of their burden? Well, in the illustration, the man did get to his destination because he accepted the ride. He got there tired and sweaty from carrying his burden even though he did not have to, but he did get there, because the requirement was to get in the ride, and he did that. Some carry their entire burden, some give part to Jesus and carry part of it, and some give it all to Jesus and enjoy the ride. They all will get to the destination regardless of how much they enjoy the ride. I rather enjoy the ride and let Jesus (The pick up) carry my burden since He is carrying it anyway. I don't have to carry it. Thank God for carrying my burden and let me enjoy the ride. Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7009 Registered: 9-2006  |
Good illustration of some of those that are saved Hec. Unfortunately though, those in Adventism are in a demonic cult of religion, they prepetuate that cult, they teach that cult to others which destroys souls and leave only death in its wake. This does not resemble Christianity, they are followers of the ones who started it, true Christianity does not destroy, it builds up. Jesus is able to save to the uttermost the ones who come to him to be saved, as the story illustrates so well, however, for the most part, Adventists don't seem to have come to him for salvation, they have come to the the thing that bred them, the Adventist religion of sabbath work and works. So then it does depend on who the analogy is applied too. I just have a hard time believing you can apply the analogy to everyone who is in some kind of religion. You can call this being judgmental if you want, I don't believe it is, it is just using and applying common sense to a all too common situation. We as Christians need to know the difference between good and evil if we are ever going to be able to lay our baggage aside and enjoy the ride. What I am reminding is that Adventism is not Christian. the reason I do this is that there are far to many formers that still treat Adventism as a benign thing, a thing that disturbs me greatly. The reason this disturbs me so greatly when you go right back and sit in the same seat that nearly destroyed you like it was old home week is that I do not want to see you picking back up the same old burdens that nearly killed you, but to come all the way out, and live happy and productive lives as true followers of Christ. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12117 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, I have to agree with you. It's so hard, when we "come out", to begin to think biblically. We think of all the people we know who are sincere and serious about their Adventism and pleasing God, and we hardly know how to think about them. We have to see that Adventism is a subtle but profoundly dangerous deception. People who remain in it are in a toxic environment that will be fatal unless they see that reality is not in their beliefs but is solely in the word of God. We can't assume that sincere Adventists are actually Christian. We have to assume they need the gospel. Colleen | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2005 |
I need to add something to the discussion. It appears some have grouped all SDAs and put them in the same pot. I, for one, can not do this. There are many SDAs who are real Christians. They may not, as of yet, know what we have discovered, but they are under conviction. We need to be more tolerate and forgiving in our attitude towards them. Only Jesus knows how far they have come and when they will finally break the bond that is now holding them to the cult environment. Just remember most of us were, at one time, in their shoes. We may be very surprised when the last trumpet sounds as who will be your neighbor. I am not saying that we should just sit back and wait. As Colleen said, we have to assume they don't have the simple plan of salvation. Thank the Lord for those who helped me out of bondage did it with kindness. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1607 Registered: 7-2007 |
Bobalou; I didn't post that for Adventists who are saved, and there must be a few who are because Dale Ratzlaff was saved before he came out. But the majority in ANY cult and a few even in Christianity are trying to earn/partly earn their salvation and have never fully accepted Jesus' FINISHED work. Adventists who believe Ellen White believe that it's partly up to them so they therefore haven't accepted Jesus' finished work. The older folks at Camp Meeting who had such horribly sad faces were not saved. They believed that salvation was partly up to them. I'm grieved for their souls as I look back on my visit to that Camp Meeting. I'm not at all mocking or criticizing. I write things like this because I care about the people in the Adventist church. It's like seeing a family perishing in a burning house. I don't want to just drive on past and say "oh well, they bought that house. Let them die!" No, I have to warn them, to drag them out. That's why I wrote this in the "discussion," in case any Adventists are reading this. I know that Adventists get upset and think that we're attacking them, but so would a little kid if you were yanking him/her out of a burning house. The gospel is offensive to those who are perishing. (1st Corinthians 1:18 and 2nd Corinthians 4:3) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7010 Registered: 9-2006 |
I don't see how anybody could be more tolerant in their attitude towards SDA's than the people that make up this forum, just how can we be even more tolerant pray tell? Does tolerance lead us to disregard truth? To sit back and tolerate falsehoods, lies and deception on a grand scale? I don't think so. Sounds like you see us as a merciless gaggle of miscreants. River | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 78 Registered: 2-2005 |
River, I feel for you, sorry I can't reach you.I really didn't see anything uplifting in your previous post. It sets a tone that is not elevating, sorry. River said: "Sounds like you see us as a merciless gaggle of miscreants." Nothing is further from the truth. That may be your opinion of what I said, that is your mistake. It appears I hit a nerve. Threads like this one tends to over state the real situation and turn our SDA brothers and sisters further from the real truth. I can only speak for myself. When I was a SDA my brother tried to convince me, by using words like you formulated, to get me to leave. This only was an infuriation and drove me further into their teachings. When he quit the degrading and started praying for me the Holy Spirit pricked my heart. I began to see things in a much different way. No one likes to be told they are in a "demonic cult". What a turn off. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1609 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hec; Adventists would put one foot on the truck and hop alongside with their burden on their backs. That's what I did, in effect, when I was an Adventist. When someone "gets into the truck," they've accepted - really accepted, Jesus as their Savior. That's how I'm interpreting your story. If someone COMPLETELY accepts Jesus finished work and is saved, NOTHING they do, even carrying burdens [worrying about their salvation, etc.] can "un-do" their salvation because otherwise they wouldn't have eternal life (1st John 5:11). Also Paul couldn't have said that believers "have been saved" (Ephesians 2:8,9) if their salvation was only temporary until they did the next bad thing. When I was an Adventist though, I couldn't "put my weight down on that verse because Ellen White contradicted it. I believed that Ellen White and the Bible agreed, so I took both a bit metaphorically. I couldn't believe that all I needed to do to be saved was accept Jesus sacrifice for myself. I thought that some part of it was up to me - and that's what Ellen White teaches. (Also notice 1st John 2:12 that says ALL the believers sins have been forgiven. That obviously includes FUTURE sins! So when a person is saved, they're SAVED FOREVER!!!) Of course, Adventists reading this will say: "Whoa! Wait a minute! That opens the door to all kinds of sins!" To which I say that they don't understand grace and the power of the Holy Spirit Who keeps us! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12122 Registered: 12-2003 |
I remember the first time I heard someone refer to Adventism as a cult. We were already "out", but I inwardly recoiled. And mind you, I had already figured out that Satan had to have a claim on Adventism because EGW was a false prophet. Nevertheless, I had to hear it. The farther I got from it, the more cult-like it looked. I know the words we use affect how Adventists react; I just want to say, however, that although Adventists lurk here, the purpose of this forum is for us to process our Adventism so we begin to see biblically. We can't weigh all our words against an SDAs reaction to them. It's important for us not to make wild statements or to slander people. Adventist people are precious to all of us. We WERE Adventist people, and we share their identity in our own experience. Adventism, however, is not precious. It is dangerous. I realize that Adventists take it personally when we talk about the dark underside of Adventism, but in truth, I do not equate Adventism with Adventists. Adventists are people for whom Jesus died. He did not die for Adventism, and Adventism is not the church He established. Adventists are people whom Jesus wants in His actual church. So, there's bound to be some reaction and anger, and we can't avoid it all. But it's important for us to remember that the system and the organization are NOT the people. The individual people are precious and the objects of our love and attention and energy. God has given us the unique understanding to reach out to them, and even though they may be angry at first, we still have to see them as people who need the Lord. Sometimes witnessing requires that we speak truth clearly, even if it's blunt. But always truth—which is defined in Jesus—sheds light on darkness and offers a way to safety. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7012 Registered: 9-2006 |
Sorry Bobalou, I guess I do sound a little militant at times, well..I sometimes am a little militant toward a religion that has ruined the lives of so many people. Yes you did hit a nerve when you suggest that we should be MORE tolerant. Perhaps we should, but where does tolerance end before we begin to face the truth? I can't help it if a passersby has a strong reaction to my saying Adventism is a cult religion and nothing else, but hey, when the Lord deals with me about my being a man pleaser, and that I needed to do something about it, that did get my attention. I already knew deep down I was a man pleaser, but I just didn't want him telling me I was a man pleaser, but when he speaks to me, he always speaks in no uncertain terms, not unkindly, but nevertheless, leaving nothing in doubt. There probably is no one in earshot that always wanted people to like them more than me, I still do want people to like me, but now I see the bigger picture, we cannot sacrifice the gospel on the alter of tolerance. As another illustration, if I may, we have an employee who is not learning in certain areas, areas that are critical to that employee's job, and my wife and I were discussing how to handle the employee. It is critical that we bring the mistake to the employee's attention at the moment the employee makes a mistake. Why? Because how we handle this employee will not only affect our company, but also the employee's welfare in the long run, the employee depends on the job for a living, and if we let it slide, the employee will have to be let go, the employee's job and mode of making a living hangs in the balance as well as the welfare of the company we serve. We must be truthful with the employee at all times, if we are not, we let our company down, and we let the employee down and it will bring our own integrity into question. The reason for that, is that if the company hands the employee a final check, the employee will look at us and say,"Why didn't you tell me I was making mistakes, why didn't you help me with this company? now I have no means to make a living." The truth is that we are just employees in a supervisory capacity, both in the spiritual sense and in the case of the employee, a worldly sense, and the load is on us, and like it or not, we cannot, must not be man pleasers, because we my friend, are not the one handing out the final checks. I don't glory in my job, I just do it because it is a necessary thing. I tend to look at things in the long run, if I bring to the employees attention a mistake, tell the employee where they are wrong, it’s unpleasant, both for the employee and myself, but it is far more unpleasant to see a person deprived of their way of making a living. One day soon these folk will stand before their maker, and they WILL hear the truth, I just don’t want anybody to turn to me with accusing and empty eyes and say to me, “Why didn’t you tell me, you knew! But you didn’t tell me!” The Lord left us with a good picture of the final judgment in Mathew 7:13-23. Perhaps the Adventist will say, “Lord, did we not attend the Sabbath? Did we not have church? Didn’t we dangle but not swim? Didn’t we have big hospitals and schools? We never ate bacon and we read the quarterly faithfully, and boy did we get converts, we pulled them out of those heathen Baptist churches.” Well…maybe there is a little sarcasm there, but I am sure you get the picture, without a relationship with the Lord, we are all running on empty. My relationship with him depends on honesty, truthfulness and forthrightness with people on my part, and I already come up short enough on that score. River | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 79 Registered: 2-2005 |
River, I see your point. We have to express what is on our hearts. It comes down to how we choose to say those heart feelings. I presume you did not yell and rant at your employee. You would have only blocked his mind from hearing the lesson. We should approach our employees with the dignity they deserve. The later takes more thought and a lot of prayer. I must confess I have done it both ways, especially on SDA forums. I was even thrown off a forum because I came on so strong. I didn't help anyone and I was throughly embarrassed. Needless to say I learned a good lesson. A lesson I deem necessary to pass along. I think it is just an excuse to say this is a forum to vent in any manner we choose. The self control road is is always the best road to travel. May we all choose to vent in a civil manner. I am reminded of Abraham Lincoln's writing skills. He would vent in an ugly manner, tear up his letter and start afresh. I now do the same thing by highlighting and deleting thus for the most part avoiding animosity. We have to remember many of those we are trying to help were born into their belief system. They are programed and under mind control. Unless we approach them in a civil manner they will only turn away. I have been working with a JW at the hospital where I volunteer. The lady has a respect for me even though I have given her some tough questions to chew on. I believe it is almost never correct to lam blast. Jesus did become harsh when He turned over the money tables. He is God, I am but a mortal man and certainly not wise enough to make decisions like He did. In the letters to the editor in "Proclamation" we can vividly see SDAs venting in an uncivilized manner. Their comments are amusing, but I know they are serious. I have to remind myself of my marvelous exit out of the belief system that causes people to react like that. And I have to thank my Savior that I am not setting at the feet of teachers like that. In Christ, Bob | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7013 Registered: 9-2006 |
Is there a correct pronunciation for lam blast Bobby? I get the blast, I just don't get the Lam since lam means (more or less) laid back. Are we ever 'laid back' when we go to blasting anyone? Lam may even be construed as laissez fair, which might mean I am even more tolerant than I thought. River Ps: Just teasing you a little Bob, best to you and yours. You might say I am 'on the lam today'. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 80 Registered: 2-2005 |
Sorry I meant "lambaste". That is a word I hardly ever use. It sounded kosher. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It is good to be on the lam. I also wish you and your family a great and prosperous New Year. This also goes for all on the forum. | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2008  |
Hec, I like your illustration. It's a great reminder that even though we have a burden we can put it all on Jesus---it makes no sense to keep trying to "do" when Jesus says it is already done |
