| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12096
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 1:18 am: |     |
Well said, Paul. We cannot transgress any "moral code" and act in faith. Likewise, we cannot overcome the sins of the flesh outside of faith.
Colleen |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 2176
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2010 - 8:40 am: | |
All believers have the presence of the indwelling Spirit as the personal power for living to please God. Paul's list in Galatians 5:19-20, although not exhaustive, encompasses three areas of human life: sex, religion, and human relationships. The Spirit produces fruit which consists of nine characteristics or attitudes (vv. 19-20) that are inextricably linked with each other and are commanded of believers throughout the NT. Yes, I still candidly remember my mother reciting these nine characteristics in the German language by memory. The "law of Christ" is the law of love which fulfills the entire law. Paul concludes by stating: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap" (Gal. 6:7 ESV). Indeed, "faith apart from works is dead" (James 2:26 ESV). Let us "bring about the obedience of faith" (Rom. 16:26 ESV). May the whole world know we are Christians by our love (even on this forum).
Dennis Fischer |
Michaelmiller
Registered user
Username: Michaelmiller
Post Number: 204
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 10:31 am: | |
Nowisee,
Thanks for the Luke 4 reference which itself references Isaiah 61. Here is something I never noticed about Luke 4:18-19 before now:
quote:"...has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor..."
Although this has a literal fulfillment, it also has a fulfillment in that the good news reaches the "poor in spirit". We were once blind, but now the veil has been removed. We are no longer slaves to the law of sin and death, but instead live according to the Spirit which brings life. We are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. We are no longer prisoners/oppressed. We have favor with God through Jesus!
Michael |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1591
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 6:57 pm: | |
Dear Dennis,
I agree completely that the Holy Spirit never contradicts the Bible and would never suggest such a thing at all. It is the Bible that Says that Jesus is the end of the law and the law is obsolete…not me.
It is not my heart or motivation to “throw out” anything to “get rid” of the 4th commandment.
Jesus did a perfect job of fulfilling the shadow of the Sabbath and needs no help from me.
The Gospel is the good news that we being lost in sin have a savior, a redeemer, who paid the full debt of the law and the full wages of sin on my behalf.
I never insinuated or implied that Christians are without law!!!
In fact Jesus made the law even more strict in the NT …anger = murder… lust = adultery.
But the law is not now nor ever has been the means of salvation. ..as no one but the Lord Jesus has been able to keep them..apart from God.
In Christ HE in us gives us the desire and the power to do His will.
The law apart from being in Christ is like driving down the hwy and seeing a sign that says 50 mph.
The sign tells us how fast we are allowed to drive but has no POWER to stop us and make us obey.
Now if we are driving down the hwy and see a sign that says 50 mph and there is a police car parked right beside it THEN we are going to obey because that police officer has the power to pull us over and ticket us. This is the difference in having JESUS in our hearts HE gives us the desire and the power to do HIS will and if we do not HE has the power to discipline us, as His children but He does not kick us out of the family .
I prefer to take my heart and mind to the scriptures and have them change me.
I do not take my preconceived ideas to the word and try to make the Word fit my ideas.
I love my new life of freedom in Christ and have not become a lawless creature since coming to know my Lord Jesus personally.
Now I keep the law because I truly do love the Lord and NOT in order to be saved.
The law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). We are not under the works of the law. People who try to keep the law to be saved, either partly or in whole, are under a curse. See Galatians 3:10 |
Patallen
Registered user
Username: Patallen
Post Number: 188
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 7:35 pm: | |
Asurprise, I like! |
Michaelmiller
Registered user
Username: Michaelmiller
Post Number: 205
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 8:07 pm: | |
I find that when I tried to keep the law as something which had power over me, then inevitably I ended up failing... the law brought out my sin whenever I tried to keep it. I didn't grow in Christ... instead I only became more of a miserable mess.
Once I found that I was set free from the law I stopped trying to keep it on my own... instead I turned my issues over to God. It was when I stopped trying to keep the law on my own (because I knew I was powerless to do so... especially given how Jesus amplified the law) that I found the Holy Spirit working within me. My character has begun to grow as a result. To me this is the essence of Romans 7.
I've found that God wants to see me... every last part with all of my flaws and weaknesses. He does not want a relationship with some fake image that I try to maintain but never quite succeed at. He wants a relationship with me.
Imagine having a relationship with your spouse who is only presenting an image based on your expectations... it doesn't work that way... you want a relationship with the real person.
It reminds me of Joel 2:13 - "Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity."
So, I absolutely do not believe that the OC law has power over us once we are His. We are led by the Holy Spirit, but it is in the NC law of Christ (love), not the OC law. It so happens that such far exceeds the OC requirements.
I find no reason to return to binding myself to the "moral requirements of the OC law" when I already have the Holy Spirit to guide me. I have no use for man made artificial division of the OC law which is not found in the Bible. I do not replace the role of the Holy Spirit as my guide by saying that the 10C are my guide. In fact, I believe that Romans 7:1-6 warns against this very thing!
Michael |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12104
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 12:11 am: | |
Great points, Michael.
Colleen |
Paulcross
Registered user
Username: Paulcross
Post Number: 123
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 6:46 am: | |
Michael,
Thanks for Post #205, really dovetails beautifully with my meditation time this morning.
Why go back? - Indeed! Why would we ever want to???
What a beautiful trade off... a hopeless downward spiral into dispair and stagnancy is gone, but NOW, Spirit of God living in me - I stand in amazement at the changes.
\o/
Paul Cross |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7005
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 11:33 am: | |
Today I heard a preacher tell how, if we see another Christian doing something we think is a sin, how we should lovingly point out in scripture the wrong to them.
I thought uh uh, not me Jack, that ain't in my job description. Since when do we have the power to convict of sin? The Spirit living in that person has the power to convict that person.
This preacher gave six steps to approaching someone about their sin.
I thought, "Oh wait, let me stop my car and write that down so I can go around convicting my brothers and sisters of what I think is wrong in their lives." (a little sarcasm here)
I don't know where that guy got his information, but he sure seems to have got his job description mixed up. Does anybody else think that is in our job description? Just wondering.
River |
Bobalou
Registered user
Username: Bobalou
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - 4:52 am: | |
Multiply that preacher by thousands and we can see why people are so confused. Study to show yourself improved.
2 Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. |
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