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Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3497
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 1:50 pm: |     |
And notice that that is until John the Baptist comes (verses 5-6). Just as Jesus said: "The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it." (Luke 16:16 ESV.)
Also, this (Malachi 4) was the last message from God until the coming of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.
Jeremy |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 2:27 pm: | |
Jim; God was able to trust the apostles to write His words - you need to trust them too.
Please consider these verses:
First a couple that point out just what the Old Covenant is:
Exodus 34:28 says: "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS."
Deuteronomy 4:13 says: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."
(So as you can see, these verses identify the Old Covenant AS the Ten Commandments.)
Now I've already pointed out where God promised a whole new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31
The Ten Commandments have two purposes:
1. To show the holiness of God
2. To show the total depravity of man
The Ten Commandments are meant to drive us to the Savior. But once saved, we're not under the law.
For example: the law of flight does not destroy the law of gravity. It supersedes it. The airplane keeps the people from falling - the law of gravity is not destroyed, it is nullified to the people in the airplane.
God is the one who keeps the saved person from falling (Jude 24). The law is not destroyed. It's nullified. It's still in effect for people who don't believe - as a schoolmaster to point them to Christ (Galatians 3:24). But we who are saved are no longer under a schoolmaster. It's nullified to us. We are now under the law of the Spirit.
Another example comes from the Bible (Romans 7:2-4) It talks about a woman who's bound by the law to her husband as long as he's alive, but when he dies, she can marry whomever she wishes.
The passage says that we "have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God." Jim; what if someone's spouse died, but they were terrified of dating anyone for fear they would offend the dead spouse? Aren't you acting like that?
Jim; you said earlier that you aren't going by feeling, but you are. You "feel" that the apostles words aren't God's words, but they are.
The "truth shall set you free" (John 8:32). God's Word is the TRUTH. You need to go by the truth and not by feelings.
And here is another verse that shows that the Old Covenant is obsolete: "In that He says, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13
So the law is not destroyed, it's nullified for the saved.
Colossians 2:14; "having wiped out the requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
Before we're saved, we're under the law and God is our judge. After we're saved, we're under the law of the Spirit and God is our Father. We obey Him because we ARE His children, not to BECOME His children. And if we DO MESS UP, we don't stop being His children, we're still saved. After all, our future sins are forgiven - as I'm about to point out in a verse below.
Another thing you said is that you couldn't have the assurance of salvation because we could mess up in the future.
Notice 1st John 5:13; "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE." John couldn't have written that if it were false.
Also earlier in the same book (1st John 2:12), he wrote: "I write to you, little children, because your sins ARE FORGIVEN you for His name's sake." |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 2:39 pm: | |
So Jim, it's all or nothing. It's either ALL JESUS and none of us or it's ALL US and none of Jesus. It's not part and part like the Mormon's say. They say that we are saved by grace; "AFTER ALL WE CAN DO." |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1816
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 9:02 pm: | |
Hey Jim,
As NT Christians (and gentiles), we are led by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. He shows us that it's wrong to kill, wrong to commit adultery, wrong to lie, cheat or steal. Do we call that law? I can't speak for everyone, but for me I just call it "wrong", and totally against what Jesus taught. We aren't led by the 10 commandments. In fact, if you asked a rabbi about the 10 commandments, he would tell you there's no such thing. He would say there are 613 laws in the torah, given to the Children of Israel. (If you really want to keep laws, you can obey the laws in your city, state or country.)
So when you have already acknowleged that Christ is your Savior, every time you are impressed in your heart not to lie, cheat, steal or kill, you can thank the Holy Spirit. You can also thank him when you love, show charity, or "feed his lambs".
Simplistic, but it works.
 Leigh Anne |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 181
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 21, 2010 - 9:16 pm: | |
The LAW is NOT DESTROYED... it is still in effect as a schoolmaster to the unbeliever pointing him to Christ.
The LAW is FULFILLED IN CHRIST... that we might receive HIS righteous keeping of the law, on our behalf,
as HE takes our unrighteousness (sin) on HIM ... the great substitution.
The LAW is NULL and VOID and OBSOLETE...
to the BELIEVER, who is saved by faith through grace NOT OF WORKS and becomes a child of God.
We obey God because we ARE HIS children NOT in order to BECOME HIS children.
If we continue to sin then HE lovingly DISCIPLINES us...HE does NOT kick us out of the family!
Anymore than you would kick your son out of the family for disobeying you.
Are you a better father than God is???
NO we have a RELATIONSHIP with the Father instead of the REQUIREMENTS of the LAW.
So you see the law is good and in effect and not destroyed and fulfilled and null and void and obsolete,
IT IS ALL OF THESE THINGS depending on YOUR relationship to CHRIST.
. |
Indy4now
Registered user
Username: Indy4now
Post Number: 924
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2010 - 1:46 pm: | |
Hi Jim,
If you do a search on the internet on the 10C's, you'll find that there are 3 different versions of the 10C's. If we consider that the Jews are given the oracles of God, then their version of the 10C's are the accurate version of the 10C's. The first commandment, according to the Jewish 10C's, is "I am the Lord thy God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery." (Ex.20:2) There is no "Christian link" there. Why do you suppose the church removed that commandment?
If you read Heb.9:1-4, you will see what is included in the first covenant:
quote:Heb 9:1-4 NASB
(1) Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary.
(2) For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.
(3) Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,
(4) having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;
The author then goes on to contrast how Christ (and His blood) is superior to the animal sacrifices. He concludes,
quote:Heb 10:9 NASB
(9) then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
It is clear that the 10C's are part of the first covenant that Christ took away in order to establish the second.
The problem we have as formers is this... we have grown up with the mindset that God's overall purpose for us is to restore moral conduct. We learned that the 10C's were God's "eternal" moral law that was revealed to the Israelites to restore moral conduct. I believed that the purpose of the first covenant was to restore moral conduct but we couldn't do it. So then comes salvation. But my theology of salvation was skewed by adventism as well. I believed that even though Christ died for my sins... I was still going to be "investigated" to make sure my character was in perfect harmony with the law. Again, the overall purpose of the IJ was to restore moral conduct. By the time the world ends, I believed my moral conduct was going to be tested again.... worship on Sabbath because that is what was in the 10C's. Again, this fit into my mindset that God was restoring moral conduct.
How WRONG was all that??? If God wanted to restore moral conduct, why didn't He just create emus (the bird with the smallest brain) and then drop bird food to make us do what He wants us to do?
Looking at the Bible now I see that God's overall plan is to restore His relationship with us. He created the world, it was good and then sin came into the world and separated us from God. He has been working since then to restore His relationship with us. When we change our mindset... we can then see that the overall purpose of the first covenant was to point out sin. By pointing out sins, we feel the need to repent. Before Christ, the way people restored their relationship with God was through sacrifices. This was all to point us to Christ. Since Christ has died and our sins have been forgiven, we have atonement with God, we can now enjoy a relationship with God.
Now we can sit here and discuss moral conduct, 10C's and more... but it's a little like the Pharisees sitting there trying to decide how many steps they could take on the Sabbath. The Bible is one of God's way of revealing Himself to us so that we can have a relationship with Him. God's way of restoring us is through faith in what His Son did for us at the cross. He promises us that through Christ, He gives us a new heart. He doesn't even try to restore our black and calloused heart... He just gives us a new one. As He lives in us and we seek Him, we become transformed. If we continue to seek Him, the result is that our moral conduct will be restored. But if we try to restore our moral conduct before we have a relationship with Him... it doesn't work.
I used to read the Bible only to find out how it all applied to my plan rather than how could I apply myself into God's plan. By understanding what Christ did for us and looking at His life I now see that Christ lived in submission to God. He lived to serve people by healing, teaching and He was humble. His life wasn't a model to teach us how to keep the 10C's... how to restore our moral conduct. His life was a model in how we should live our lives in submission to Him and to serve others. It's that simple!
If you seek the Bible to establish the 10C's... your theology will end up a theology based on works. If you seek God in His word, you will restore your relationship with Him and He will transform you. Just as Leigh Anne and Handmaiden wrote above. Seek Him.... everything else will follow.
vivian |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1036
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2010 - 6:38 pm: | |
I do have belief in the canon of the Bible.
That which was inclusive at the time of Christ and that which was written by the Apostles.
I am not sure that verbatum is even possible in scripture after translation as is evident by all the types of translations.
I believe that scripture is inspired.
That "all scripture" refers to the then existing (OT) and any that would have been written by the Apostles.
It is not a matter of not accepting the scriptures, or to suggest accepting only part of them. It is a question of understanding the intent or message of each teaching in scripture. To know what is literal, symbolic, allegorical and so on. What is a parable, an analogy, or actual events. What is applicable, period setting, custom, tradition, binding, not binding, what is ended, what continues, what is new, what is the same.
It is understanding the meaning of global, open ended statements.
Simply saying , 'just believe' is practically meaningless. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. That is what I have been trying to do all along. Beliefs without essential understanding is not safe.
Jim |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1037
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2010 - 6:51 pm: | |
Leigh Anne,
We are on the same page.
Handmaiden, Indy4now, Asurprise.
I have been working through these thoughts all of you have shared. I appreciate everyone.
Thank you all.
Jim |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 182
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 22, 2010 - 11:49 pm: | |
Dear Jim,
Thank you for your kind words. Please know that you are loved and cared for and in our prayers.
Also know that God is not the author of confusion.
The gospel is good news.
It is a FREE GIFT.. the work has been done..it is finished,
The price has been paid..the wages of sin is death - Jesus died in your place on the cross.
Salvation is freely offered to all, who will come.. God is not willing that any should perish.
God made salvation so simple, that anyone anytime, any where could be saved.
It is simply letting go, coming to the end of yourself, surrendering your life to God and trusting in His great heart of love for you.
It is not hard, God loves you and wants you to be in His family.
Do you want to be in His family...just say "yes Lord i want what you want for me.
i want You in my life". i am willing Lord, help my unwillingness, i believe Lord help my unbelief.
You will never find God with your mind, Jim.
You simply by faith trust that He loves you and wants you ...He will do the rest.
God so loved Jim that He gave His only begotten Son, that Jim believing this one simple truth might not perish but receive eternal life.
Do you believe that God loves you, Jim??
That is all of the Bible you have to believe and know.
God loves you and He has done EVERYTHING necessary for you to be with Him forever.
You are putting the cart before the horse...
you really cannot know or understand the Word of God until you are born again.
The Word of God is spiritually discerned.
You do not have to understand the entire Bible before you are saved. First you are born into His family. Then His Holy Spirit comes to teach you and to guide you and to counsel you and as you grow in the Lord He teaches you more and more.
How many people would be saved if we had to know everything the Word teaches before salvation???
He said a little child shall lead them.
A little child does not understand justification, regeneration, propitiation, sanctification...
they understand that JESUS LOVES ME.
Let go and let God love you, Jim.
Let the love of God flow over you and into your heart and completely saturate every fiber of your being.
Know that you know that you know that God loves you.
He gave His very best for you...He gave allll that He had for you.
Receive that pure UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and run into the arms of Jesus.
Yes, JESUS LOVES YOU, the Bible tells you so.
That is all you need to know.
Father,
i ask that You would calm all of Jim's fears,worries and doubts cause his mind to rest and be comforted in his soul, give him peace in his spirit, cause him to KNOW that You love him with an UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Your great and mighty love that conquered sin, death, hell and the grave on his behalf. Break the chains that are holding him captive, destroy the lies and the confusion of sda teaching, remove the veil that keeps him from seeing clearly the CROSS and the love that held Jesus there and all that was accomplished there on Jim's behalf. Give Jim the strength and the will and the small measure of faith to let go and fall into Your EVERLASTING arms...for You have caught everyone of us that have trusted in Your love for us.
All these things i ask in the name of Jesus, who loved us and gave Himself for us.
amen |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1038
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 2:25 pm: | |
Dear Handmaiden,
I am deeply touched by your heartfelt message and prayer on my behalf. Thank You very much.
I believe I am moving in the right direction in these theological entanglements. But it is often a painful process working through the new understandings and letting go of what we thought we knew. River wrote recently about how SDA's must feel when they suddenly find out left is right, down is up and everything is inside out.
It's been like that for me. Finding myself needing a faith anchor to hold fast in hard times and at the same time not knowing which end is up.
Sometimes we go through many events and changes all at the same time. Shock and overload.
There is no choice but to cling to Christ and wait for light to dawn.
People suggest that I just let go, and have faith. I get that. I try to do just that.
Though when it hurts, when you get in those dark times, you do anything you can think of to move away from pain.
When bad things happen during or after I experiment with not keeping Sabbath, it is hard to not think God is unhappy with me. Almost like a superstition. Part of this comes from EGW comments, admonitions and such. Some from Paul's writings , whatever is not of conviction is sin.
These create those mind traps of guilt and fear.
I think about this often. This cannot possibly be what God had in mind when He said "Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy burdened...."
Prayerfully, I think I am making progress. But I have a long ways to go.
Jim |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1039
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 2:40 pm: | |
I have one more thing about all this that bothers me a lot.
One of the reasons I have been so confused is that many (if not most) of the Christian denominations teach or use the concept of the 10 commandments as a teaching tool. It continues to be part of their ongoing theology.
Then when you read up on their various explainations , you get into a wide range of logic and rationale trying to piece together old and new covenants blended into a reworked format using the 10C model.
This is where the 4th becomes the third , another is split (in some versions), or we read insert the Lord's day here, and of course the 9 of 10 reinstatement theory.
All this is like working in a whirlpool.
It is when is set all these reworked models aside that I am able to 'begin' to understand the New Covennant.
It is all new. It has to be. No other model fits.
I wonder why this has not been more evident to the many faiths after all these centuries?
Jim |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 3:44 pm: | |
Jim, the view of the 10 Commandments are different for regular churches. For most of us, we know and accept that they were given to the Jews. It's one of those things where it's part of Biblical history, and it can be used as an example. Then again, so are the stories of Adam and Eve, Noah, King David, ect. We certainly don't live like any of those people, but their stories are there and have value.
Basically it's taken for granted that since the 10 C's were given to the Jews, which is why Jews have and "keep" Sabbath, and we regular Christians don't.
That being said, if you attend a mainstream church, but don't read your Bible and aren't aware of church history, it's easy for people to get confused by cults who claim to have the "truth". When SDA's ask "Do you believe in the 10 Commandments?", if you aren't equipped to answer that, you may end up with, "well of course I do!" Then comes a plea for the the Sabbath, etc.
I realize that culturally, our country uses the 10 C's to point to God. Some courthouses in the south have them on the wall. It might be a good intention, but how would they explain #4 being there? If they wanted to point to God, it would be better that they have Jesus' commandments on the wall. With all due respect, our country was founded by Congregationalist Christians, not Jews.
At any rate, the 10 C's are in the Bible, along with many other laws, statutes and examples. We use them to teach, but they certainly should not be used to build a false gospel.
Leigh Anne |
Michaelmiller
Registered user
Username: Michaelmiller
Post Number: 153
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 7:26 pm: | |
Jim,
You are correct in that there are a wide variety of views out there regarding how the sabbath is handled.
Part of this is due to multiple viewpoints on how it all ticks: dispensationalism, covenant theology, new covenant theology, etc. Many hold hybridized views from each of these and don't fully understand how it works. This is not surprising since among Christians it is belief alone which determines salvation; everything else is rightfully a matter of secondary importance. Unfortunately this does set many less informed individuals up to be ensnared by the SDA argument (I was one of them).
Here is an interesting (but long) writeup on the varying viewpoints on the Sabbath that I found on the Internet:
http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/christiansabbath.pdf
I agree with you that the new covenant has to be entirely new. As to why it hasn't been evident to all... probably because sinful nature keeps wanting us to believe that we need to "do" something of our own merit, which is, of course, contrary to the point of gospel.
Michael |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1820
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 9:53 pm: | |
Michael, I sure wish I could push a "Like" button for your post.
Leigh Anne |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 183
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2010 - 1:24 am: | |
Dear Jim,
i appreciate your reply so much and i am very grateful that i could share my heart and pray for you.
It is my sincerest hope that God will soon deliver you from the tormenting doubts that keep you from fully trusting in His great heart of love for you. i have prayed and asked the Lord to give me His words to speak to your heart. i pray the truth in these words would break the hold the enemy has on your life.
The enemy is a clever deceiver. He has been deceiving people since Adam. He has been a liar from the begining and is the father of all lies. his lies have kept people in darkness and bondage for years and years. he knows your weakest areas and he is a master at manipulating circumstances. Jim do not let his fear tactics keep you a prisoner.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God which is the Truth that sets the captives free.
i pray with all my heart that you will be free ...you do not have a long ways to go...it is the shortest of steps into the arms of Jesus. You do not have to go to Him, He came to you, Jim. He came to save you from the enemy, from the empty life you are living from the torment of doubt and endless questions - Jesus is the answer..
Jim,
i know that a lie oft repeated is believed...and the lies of the enemy have been repeated often in your hearing so let me once again repeat the TRUTH...
There is NOTHING you can do to save yourself.
There is NO action that will make God love you more than He already does.
Keeping the sabbath perfectly til the day you die ...will not save you or gain you any favor with God whatsoever...
The sabbath is a shadow of the REST we can find ONLY in Jesus.
Resting on the sabbath is only a symbol, a picture of the rest we have in Christ,
not rest from shopping or carrying a burden or earning a living, or rest for a tired body.
The true sabbath rest of Jesus is rest from trying to earn what God has already freely given us - salvation...RESToration of relationship between God and man. Rest from the heavy burdens of fear, guilt, worry and doubt ....lay those heavy burdens down and REST in the FINISHED WORK and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We can REST because the WORK is DONE.
There is nothing more TO DO
JESUS is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no man comes to the Father, except through JESUS,
He is the door not the sabbath.
The sabbath is not God's test of loyalty....
God is OMNICIENT.
He does not have to test your loyalty or investigate your sins for that matter...He knows every thought, motive, desire and intent of your heart and every word you have spoken or will ever speak. He knows the hairs on your head, there is NOTHING hidden from Him.
He knows the past and the present and the future.
He knows it ALLLLL. He knows you best , everything inside and out and He still loves you with an enduring, powerful, active love that can never be quenched.
His love covers a multitude of sins.
His blood washed away your sins.
Your sins do not stand between you and God any more....they have been removed as far as the east is from the west.
All your sins, past, present and future HAVE ALREADY BEEN FORGIVEN.
God's justice was satisfied at the cross, God's mercy was poured out to us at the cross,
His mercy is new EVERY morning.
He loves you, He has always loved you and He will always love you.
Salvation is not based on whether you have been good or bad.
Good thing because we are all bad, there is none good but God.
ALLL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Salvation is not based on the 10 commandments.
Good thing because no one has kept them, but Jesus
and if you think you have or are keeping them you are in delusion.
There is no forgiveness with the law,
break one commandment-one time and you have broken ALLLLL of them and no do overs.
There is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood and
the 10 commandments cannot bleed for you = no forgiveness from the law.
The law can not save you. It can only condemn you.
It is the ministry of death.
Its purpose is solely to show you the unapproachable, absolute holiness of God and the utter depravity of your own heart.
Salvation is not based on keeping the sabbath the sabbath is nothing but a shadow.
The substance is Jesus - this is why the 4th commandment is not repeated in the New Testament because Jesus is our rest not the sabbath.
Salvation is based on one thing and one thing only .... DO YOU HAVE JESUS.
i was not raised in the sda church but i too know the confusion, fear, guilt and yes the pain of being raised in a works based cult. The enemy is a cruel task master and uses all of these tools to keep us in bondage. he will not let us go easily. But the TRUTH shall set you FREE, Jim as it set me free.
The Word of God is the Truth that sets us free, it is our only plumbline in a world that has been turned upside down, it is the anchor that keeps us from forever drifting in a sea of confusion, as to what is right and wrong...what is truth and what is lie.
Salvation is like rescuing a drowning person. The victim is out there sinking, they have no abilty to save themselves and left alone they will surely die. The hero jumps into save the drowning victim only to find a fight on his hands, as the victim continues to struggle to save himself...often the victim has to be knocked out, rendered unconscience in order to be pulled to safety.
Just as the drowning person is struggling, in fear for his life, the only thing he can do to assist his rescuer is to stop struggling and trust in his rescuers ability to save him. Jim, you are drowning, in a raging tormenting sea, with huge waves of fear, doubt, and uncertainty...you have no ability to save yourself...stop struggling against the only ONE, who has the power to save you...to pluck your life from the sea of death and set your feet on solid ground. Jesus is the Saviour not you.
The Word of God says:
That God loves you with AGAPE = unconditional love = NO conditions
That you are saved by grace = UNMERITED favor = you did nothing to earn it
Salvation is FREE to you because Jesus already paid the price...He died for you, paying for ALL of your sins, past present and future. In fact ALL of your sins were future when Jesus paid the FULL price for them.
Good works CANNOT save you...in fact there is NONE good but God....you can do NO good thing apart from God so in fact you cannot save yourself by good works, as you have no good works to save yourself with.
You cannot save yourself by doing good works...therefore you CAN NOT LOSE your salvation by doing bad works or sinning.
Salvation is not perfomance based it is the work of God.
Father,
Once more i lift up my friend Jim before Your throne of grace.
i ask that you would give him ears to hear and eyes to see the TRUTH
that is revealed in Your Word, alone...the Truth that sets us free from every weight and lie
that the enemy would seek to deceive us with and drown us with... the Truth that sets us
free to worship You in spirit and truth every day, every hour, every minute from hearts that are overflowing with gratefulness for what You have done for us, for what You have prepared for us, for the great love that You have for us and the unending mercy and grace You have poured out
upon us. Speak peace into Jim"s heart and his circumstances, bring healing to his hurts and wounds, let pain and trials drive him to his knees to seek Your heart and wisdom and direction. Give him the rest that can only be found in Your arms. Comfort him O God with the comfort only You can give to those who cry out to You with the deepest cries of their hearts. Restore to him the years the canker worm of sda has stolen from him. Grant him the JOY of salvation as he embraces the truth of Your Word, as he embraces Jesus. Cause the seeds of truth to take root in fertile ground in his heart and proceed out of his mouth, use him Lord to be a deliverer of Your people in bondage to the lies of sda even as You used Moses to deliver Your people from slavery in Egypt.
In the mighty name of Jesus, i ask these things according to Your will let them be done.
amen
much love
handmaiden |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1040
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 4:18 pm: | |
Handmaiden,
Thank you ever so for praying on my behalf.
You wrote two things that I am wondering about.
"That God loves you with AGAPE = unconditional love = NO conditions"
Is there a passage that speaks this to you in paticular?
and
"You cannot save yourself by doing good works...therefore you CAN NOT LOSE your salvation by doing bad works or sinning."
I fathom the first part, but how do you arrive at the second part? (This is not a challenge, I honestly want to know)
How do you frame this conclusion in view of the various warnings about who would not inherit the kingdom of heaven? This too , is part of that struggle to let go of the works aspect of legalism.
Jim |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 187
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 6:07 pm: | |
Dear Jim,
i am grateful for your reply and questions and most of all your desire to know and do what is right. It is a wonderful blessing for me to be able to pray for you and i am happy and burdened to do so. i have prayed many prayers on your behalf Jim, and sought the Lord for wisdom to answer your questions.
First of all i want you to know that God does love you, Jim far more than you will ever be able to fathom.
You see God as a punishing God but God defines Himself as LOVE.
GOD IS LOVE 1 JOHN 4:8
How do we know God's love is unconditional??
"For God so loved (agape-unconditional love)
the world (everyone-no exceptions),
that He gave(free gift-unearned)
His only begotten Son,(ALL THAT WAS VALUABLE TO HIM)
that whosoever(anyone) believes in Him should NOT perish (eternal punishment),
but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
God does NOT want to punish anyone. He is NOT willing that any should perish.
It is His desire to freely give us eternal life. He has made eternal life available to ALL who will believe that He loves them and took upon Himself the sins of the whole world.
How do we know that we cannot lose our salvation by doing bad works/sinning.
....shall NOT PERISH but shall have ETERNAL LIFE.
Jim, what is ETERNAL life???
Does God give us ETERNAL life that is NOT ETERNAL but only temporary until we sin again???
How can it be ETERNAL IF we can LOSE it????
How can it be ETERNAL IF it is based on us???
It can only be ETERNAL if it is given by an ETERNAL God and based on what an ETERNAL God has done for us.
The gift of God's son as a provision for sin was given to ALL humans, regardless of who we are. God's love is UNCONDITIONAL and ETERNAL.
God did NOT send His Son into the world to CONDEMN the world, but that through Him the WORLD might be SAVED. John 3:17
This is God's heart for ALL the people of the world ... to SAVE them.
WHO did God send Jesus to save??
"SINNERS" (Rom. 3:23),
"UNGODLY" (Rom. 4:5),
those "WITHOUT STRENGTH" (Rom. 5:6),
His "ENEMIES" (Rom. 5:10).
If you do NOT think that you are any of the above, you CANNOT be saved.
If you still think you're GOOD enough, you CANNOT be saved.
God does NOT SAVE GOOD people, or people "TRYING" to earn their way to heaven.
The healthy have no need of a Physician!!!!
You must come to God God's way.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified FREELY by His GRACE through the REDEEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus" Rom. 3:23-24.
God saves sinners on this basis ALONE.
FREELY
It does not cost the sinner anything. It is free. You can't earn salvation by being good, and you cannot lose salvation by being bad. God does not require any works from a sinner. Good works do not make it easier, and bad works do not make it harder to get saved.
It is FREE, FREE, FREE! God justifies the sinner freely.
Justification is the act whereby God declares a person righteous, even though that person in himself is not righteous.
By His GRACE
That means that it comes from the great AGAPE love of God’s heart for us without finding anything in the recipient that would draw out His grace. Grace is all that God is free to do for the undeserving sinner BECAUSE Christ paid for the sins of the whole world on the Cross.
If we have to work for our salvation, then salvation is not "by His grace."
IF we can earn it then Jesus died in vain ....God would NOT have sent His Son to die the horrible death, He died for us if there was another way any other way at all.
Through the REDEMPTION
that is in Christ Jesus. Salvation is free to the sinner, but it cost God everything! Free is not cheap. As a matter of fact, salvation is the most expensive thing that has ever been paid. The cost of salvation was that Almighty God chose to become a man/human and die in the sinner's place.
The cost was infinite!
SIN AGAINST AN INFINITE GOD REQUIRES AN INFINITE PAYMENT.
No man or good works of any kind can pay this INFINATE debt.
The debt has been FULLY PAID for by the Lord Jesus Christ an infinite sacrifice for all men.
It is the height of arrogance to offer to God your filthy works...
after His Own Son suffered on the Cross to pay for YOUR sins.
"I declare unto you the Gospel...by which also ye are saved...Christ died for our sins...was buried, and...rose again the third day" (I Cor. 15:1-4).
Do you believe Jesus was resurrected then ALSO believe that He died for your SINS all of your sins. PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.
If salvation COULD be LOST WHICH IT CANNOT
BUT JUST SUPPOSE....then HOW would it be lost???
It must be lost through disobedience to God/ committing more sins after salvation. Most who believe in such an unsure salvation would agree with this statement.
Then what DEGREE of sin could bring this loss of salvation???????
Evil thoughts? Bitterness? Murder? Failing to attend church? Failure to keep the sabbath? Failure to pray?
What sin or sins cross the line of no return?
We MUST let Scripture ALONE be the measure of TRUTH.
In Corinthians, chapter 5, a man in the church had taken his father's wife as his own. Paul states that this is such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles 1 Corinthians 5:1. One could hardly imagine a worse category of sin than this. Yet Paul's instructions concerning the treatment of this man in I Corinthians 5:5 are as follows:
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,that the SPIRIT MIGHT BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Only his flesh was to be delivered to Satan. The spirit was still saved.
This matches the description in I Corinthians 3:15 of the man whose works will be burned:
If any man’s works shall be burned,he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
You can lose every reward you could have had and yet go to heaven.
WHY?
Because your salvation is based on the work of Christ, NOT on your own works.
Your works, good or bad, neither gain nor lose salvation.
Another heinous sin is blasphemy. Surely if evil sins could remove salvation, this one could.
Yet, in I Timothy 1:20, Paul states:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
The pattern is the same as that found in I Corinthians, chapter 5.
Their flesh is delivered to Satan so that their spirits may be saved in the day of Christ.
You cannot lose your salvation by committing these or other terrible sins.
You will be disciplined. You will lose heavenly rewards.
But a human spirit ONCE made ALIVE by God must remain ALIVE.
In order to lose your salvation and go to hell, you must take the Holy Spirit with you. Ephesians 1:13-14 states:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
According to the strict order of the passage, you hear first, then you trust (or believe), and lastly, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The sealing of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation because if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. Romans 8:9.
Therefore, to have Christ in your heart is to have the Spirit. And when you are sealed with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit becomes your earnest: the earnest of your inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.
What is an earnest?
In buying real estate, you give earnest money to show that you are earnest or serious about buying a house. If you decide to back out of the purchase, the seller still gets to KEEP the earnest money.
In other words, an EARNEST IS A PAYMENT WHICH CANNOT BE TAKEN BACK.
The Holy Spirit is the EARNEST of your INHERITANCE. He is the GUARANTEE that you will receive the rest of the purchased possession. And the Spirit, as your earnest, cannot be taken back, even if you were to become lost.
Therefore, in order to lose your salvation, you must take God’s Spirit with you to hell.
Romans 8:16-17 states:
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children,then heirs; heirs of God, and join-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
At salvation, you become a JOINT HEIR with Christ. To be a joint-heir means to inherit together; to share in the same inheritance with which the Father will bless the Son. This is a promise of God.
Yet, what if you were to lose your salvation and go to hell. As joint-heir, not only do you share in Christ's inheritance, but He must also share in your inheritance. The only way for you to inherit hell and its horror is to take the Son of God with you.
God’s wondrous gift of salvation is eternal in every way.
Jim, if you are still not convinced, check your reasons. Are they emotional?
It just doesn’t seem right.? Or rational? It doesn't make sense.?
If so, then you need to surrender your emotions and thought to the TRUTH of God’s Word.
Do you have trouble accepting eternal security because you have watched the sinful lives of those who claim to have once been saved. They live like the devil and yet expect to go to heaven.
Believe me God’s salvation is not to be taken lightly. There are many who may have once had religion but they did NOT have Christ. 1 John 2:19. They never were saved.
There are others who were truly saved and have backslidden.. CARNAL Christians.
God teaches that He DISCIPLINES/deals strongly with His own children Hebrews 12:5-8.
Jesus paid for ALL sin, of the whole world past, present and future.
You CANNOT lose your salvation.
There is NOW ONLY ONE SIN....
ONLY ONE SIN that condemns a person
ONLY ONE SIN that can send a person to hell
ONLY ONE SIN that separates a believer from an unbeliever
ONLY ONE SIN that prevents a person from being born again...made alive in their spirits and become a member of the family of God.
NO, Christian can commit this unpardonable sin.
Only an unbeliever can commit this sin -- by rejecting Christ.
The unpardonable sin is not a matter of losing your salvation.
It is a matter of REFUSING your salvation.
Wherefore I say unto you, ALLL manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall NOT be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come... Matt. 12:31-33
Jesus said, in the Gospel of John, that the Holy Spirit, "would convict the world of sin… because they DO NOT BELIEVE on Me."
Unbelief is THE sin – and it is the sin the Holy Spirit begins with in each of us.
Conviction of UNBELIEF -- this is the job of the Holy Spirit in the life of the unbeliever – one who is NOT saved. The Holy Spirit convicts the sinner of his sin of unbelief – of not believing on Jesus Christ – and shows him that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to salvation.
The unpardonable sin is the refusal of God’s forgiveness through Jesus Christ. God cannot forgive the refusal of His forgiveness! If God forgave the refusal of His forgiveness, He would make His forgiveness meaningless.
Or, to put it another way, there is ONE sin which Jesus did not die for! That’s right. Jesus did not die for the rejection OF His death as payment for sin. If Jesus had died for the rejection of His death as payment for sin, then His death is meaningless.
It is the REFUSAL of the work of the Holy Spirit in convicting us of sin, and of revealing to us the Savior, Jesus Christ. That is why there is no forgiveness for this sin.
Many people think that they have committed the unpardonable sin because they have blurted out some curse against Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. That isn’t it. Others think that if you, in ignorance, attribute to the Devil something God is doing, that you are doomed forever. That isn’t it either. All of us make those kinds of mistakes in varying degrees. Jesus is talking about a SPIRITUAL CONDITION – not about mistakes. He is talking about people who, by their very lives, are blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit. This is about what people have BECOME, more than it is about what they do. The doing is defined by the heart from which it proceeds.
The unpardonable sin is NOT possible for one who is saved.
WHY?
Because the unpardonable sin is the refusal of God’s forgiveness. If you are saved, you haven’t refused God’s forgiveness – you are saved because you have received it.
Again, the refusal of salvation is only unto eternal condemnation because it is never repented of – it is an eternal refusal. The unpardonable sin is unpardonable because the person refuses to turn from it.
The main reason people think they are guilty of losing their salvation is that they look at themselves for evidence they are saved, and seem to find only evidence they are not.
This, of course, is based on the false notion that we are supposed to look at ourselves. But we are never to look at ourselves to prove what is the Truth. We are to, "look unto Jesus."
Jesus has saved us as an act completely independent of anything about us. We simply put our trust and reliance upon it.
People often have false expectations of salvation. We think that a saved person is supposed to automatically be able to obey God perfectly, and able to exercise freedom from every possible damage found in the old creation.
We base this expectation upon the Truth that, in Christ, we are already delivered from the power of sin.
But we are not delivered from the presence and possibility of sin. You can sin anytime you want to. You can choose to doubt, choose to sin, or choose to believe and obey. But none of that changes whether you are saved.
The Old Testament account of the promised land. Israel had been given the land, but had to go in and progressively drive out the enemies who were still living in there. Read their reactions, and then later, when they did enter, read about their warfare.
This is the Christian life – saved people. This ought to adjust our expectations.
In order for us to have God’s will, and God’s kingdom, God must dismantle OUR will, and OUR kingdom. This is a major upheaval ... as God does this, it will seem as if we are losing our life. We ARE. We are losing our life. dying to self, that we might have more of His life in us.
You cannot lose your salvation – you cannot lose HIS LIFE in you. But you must lose YOUR life, because it is the one thing that will continually conflict with HIS LIFE.
Failure to know this, or what it is like to experience it, will cause doubt and confusion.
Again IF it were possible to lose your salvation, we would have to ask, "Upon what basis?" Obviously, it could not be because we failed to do enough good works. We were not saved by good works, so we certainly cannot lose salvation by works.
What is left?
That we can lose our salvation by NOT believing?
This might seem possible to some people. For if we are saved through faith, can’t we lose salvation through a lack of faith, or by renouncing Christ?
Well, the fact is, someone who is truly converted to Christ will not renounce Christ. They can’t. This isn’t because they don’t have free will. This isn’t because they are one of the so-called, "elect." No!!! Again – it come back to the NATURE of salvation.
If I am saved, I got that way by giving my life to Christ. I got saved by settling all of those issues and possibilities of faith and surrender. Conversion is a change of direction. Repentance is a change of mind – towards God.
By definition, and by their NATURE, these things are NOT reversible.
The Godly sorrow that leads to repentance – if it is real – is not something that is possible to disavow.
But haven’t some people done so? NO!!!! The chances are, every person you hear about who seems to have disavowed Christ, was never converted to Him to begin with. They had a CONDITIONAL relationship with Him, or their faith was in their teachings and doctrines, rather than in the person of Jesus Christ.
I have know of many people who were absolutely dedicated to their principles – but who lost faith when a trial came and tested their supposed faith in Christ.
Once we water down salvation, and make Christianity nothing more than a belief system, then everything else must likewise be adjusted to compensate.
A Christianity that consists of principles to follow and doctrines to believe in – and that is ALL – will FAIL in a person’s life because their, "house," is built upon sand. A Christianity that is only a legal position will likewise fail if a strong enough storm comes.
But if a person’s life has been built upon the PERSON of Jesus Christ, who is THE rock of our salvation, that believer may stumble, but he will never fall, he will never fail. This is not because of the believer. It is because of the Rock.
You did nothing to earn your salvation -it’s FREE GIFT from God- so there’s nothing you can do to lose it. In short, I know I can’t lose my salvation, because I know WHO I’ve trusted for it. I did nothing to earn or merit it. God won’t change His mind, and I can’t disappoint Him as He already knows all the mistakes I’ll make until the day I die.
A Christian may sin - but he will also be constantly led to conviction and repentence by the Holy Spirit.
Jim
i continue to keep you in my prayers that the Truth of God's Word, and His unconditional love and His free gift of salvation will break down and destroy the blindness and the wall that prevents you from truly "seeing" WHO, God is and WHAT He has done for you.
much love always
handmaiden |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1548
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 6:10 pm: | |
Handmaiden, great post! It's nice to "see" you back on the forum. I wish you'd finish your testimony for all to see, even though you're a "never-been." There are other "never-beens" on the forum and the Lord has used you to bring several SDAs (including myself) to the truth of the gospel and out of Adventism.
The Lord rescuing you out of the Roman Catholic church was just as important, since the Catholic church is just as much a cult as the SDA church is! I especially liked that part of your testimony where you suddenly felt God's tremendous LOVE, the room went light and you "knew-that-you-knew-that-you-knew" what the gospel is!
Jim; another verse that says we can KNOW that we have eternal life is 1st John 5:13 |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 194
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 1:00 am: | |
Thank you Asurprise,
You are a sweet blessing to me.
i will never forget the overwhelming, amazing LOVE of God that filled my soul and permeated every fiber of my being on the night i surrended my life to God. i have never lost the JOY of my SALVATION and it has been 35 years now. i love HIM more and more with each new day and i KNOW the ONE, Who knows me best,with all of my faults and shortcomings TRULY loves me.
NOTHING can separate us from the ETERNAL UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD!!!
GLORY!!! HALLELUJAH!!!
i love to tell the old, old, story of JESUS and His LOVE.
much love
handmaiden |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 195
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2010 - 1:02 am: | |
Jim,
Still praying for you and hoping that my post helped.
much love
handmaiden |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1042
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 03, 2010 - 7:58 pm: | |
Hello Handmaiden,
I have been away from the web this week.
Been kind of wore out in general and took a break from thinking too much.
I truly enjoyed what you expressed above.
You have embraced a major presence of faith and peace in your life and I fathom it is a primary key to the whole picture of faith.
I do not wish to discount anything you have expressed, nor do I want to look for reasons to hold onto doubts. Much of what you spoke of is about realizing how wide our safety net is in Christ. How broad and encompassing His love really is. "Unconditional"
The reservation I run into is this; many of the statements (promises) are often written in a global or infinite manner. Undefined, unqualified or without ammendments to conditional suppostitions.
You wrote an example:
How do we know God's love is unconditional??
"For God so loved (agape-unconditional love)
the world (everyone-no exceptions),
that He gave(free gift-unearned)
His only begotten Son,(ALL THAT WAS VALUABLE TO HIM)
that whosoever(anyone) believes in Him should NOT perish (eternal punishment),
but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
..................
If I accept this and many similar promises at face value.(undefined, without presuppostions) Then indeed it does appear that we have unconditional assurance.
Now what you are saying about a settled and assured salvation is something I continue to struggle with when I read certain passages that insert conditions.
I also try to find overriding promises that lock salvation in place. But I don't seem to be able to do that.
Romans 2:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
This fits your model to an extent, but it also speaks of persistence (conditional).
I get lost in the conditions because they inject that measurement or self reflection.
There are a few places in the NT that list those who will be excluded. These lists include everyone to some extent. Are these too conditional threats, in the same manner as the promises of salvation?
It seems that we have exemptions from condemnation by virtue of belief in Christ's total substitution for our sins.
But what about that passage that says " then no more sacrifice for sin remains."
It could be this fits your model too.
"If they fall away" "after" "recieving"
All preconditions to the loss.
In other words , they never were Christians?
That scares me.
It gets back to the seeds among the thorns and rocks. I think people do believe in Christ when they accept him , but unbelief can take over and they become lost. Grafted into the vine, grafted back out.
It goes back to faith. What we believe.
So then , a sinner, sins, but still believes firmly in Christ. Despite sins habits and flaws they are saved, yet punished-disciplined, saved yet sow and reap accordingly. (Charles Stanley teaches along these lines)
Let's say a very bad experience or loss destroys a persons faith. They believe in God, but do not believe He cares or they think he is a cruel God. Are they lost then?
We may believe in Christ as a fire escape religon, (even the devil and his angles believe and tremble) does belief alone save us?
I think most sinners believe in God.
They just decide they don't have a chance and give up trying to be "good". It seems to me the scriptures speak alot about the negligent behaviour people fall into.
I am rambling here. My point is, I do not see it as all one way or all the other way.
It is the relationship that is living and growing towards Christ and obedience to the promptings of God's Spirit that make up the whole. While salvation is a gift, the Bible makes it pretty clear we do have a work to do, not withstanding our filthy rags.
I do not want to lessen or lose your points.
This is about merging all the truths into a whole experience.
Good Thoughts and Gratitude Handmaiden.
Jim |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 203
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2010 - 7:59 pm: | |
Dear Jim,
Bless you for reading my long post. i hope and pray that it gave you much to think on and pray about. i was also hoping it would finally give you some peace from your inner turmoil and struggle to let go of earning your salvation and receive the free gift of Jesus provision for you to be saved.
The law came through Moses BUT GRACE and TRUTH came through JESUS.
i can certainly understand the need for taking a break when wrestling with alll the information provided. i do pray that you will print it out and read it over again, as i did earnestly pray and asked the Lord, to give me the words to speak His great Truth into your heart.
i have read your last post and your questions regarding Romans 2:6
and Hebrews 6:4
The short answer to your questions as i have already given the long answers are:
Romans chapter 2 is talking about God's righteous JUDGEMENT on all of mankind.
He is saying that God is a righteous Judge over all of the earth and will judge justly between those who do "good" and those who do evil.
Paul is not contradicting his continual emphasis in all his writings, including Romans, that a person is NOT saved by what he does, but by faith, in what Jesus does for him.
Rather he is discussing the principle or foundation of JUDGEMENT according to deeds.
If anyone PERSISTS in doing good deeds...in effect, lives a perfect life, he will receive eternal life.
NO ONE CAN DO THIS, but IF anyone could, live a perfect life God would JUDGE RIGHTLY and give him ETRERNAL LIFE, or entrance to into His presence in heaven..since God judges righteously according to what a person does.
But since NO ONE can persist in keeping the law, 10 C or even in doing good this is a mute point.
The passage is on God's judgement of deeds good or bad.
God judges a believer or saved person at the cross.
OUR judgement or what we deserved for our "good" and bad works, deeds done in the flesh, were given to Jesus and what He deserved for His perfect life was given to us. We will no longer be "judged" having ALREADY passed from death to life.
The unbeliever will receive judgement for his works, deeds in the flesh.. all bad, as we can do NO good apart from Christ, at the great white throne judgement.
i too struggled with Hebrews 6:4 wondering if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation.
But if salvation is not dependant on me but on Jesus how can that be??
IF salvation can be lost then it is NOT ETERNAL but only TEMPORARY.
i am convinced that these verses are talking about an unbeliever, who saw the LIGHT, they were enlightened, they recognized that Jesus is the Light of the world, But they did not embrace the Light that was given to them. They hated the Light and embraced the darkness instead.
The passage says that they "tasted" of the heavenly gift BUT they spit it out and did NOT EAT the body of Jesus nor drink His blood that they might be saved.
They partook of the conviction of the Holy Spirit but resisted it and REFUSED the TRUTH of Salvation and in having done so.. It is NOW IMPOSSIBLE to renew them to repentence. There remains no other sacrifice for sin but the ONE they have already rejected.
Jim.
Nicodemus was right...it is impossible for a man to enter again into his mother's womb.
Once you are born physically ....you are born and there is no going back to being unborn.
That is why God likens salvation to birth. Once God has made your dead spirit ALIVE it is impossible for it to be dead again.
ETERNAL life IS ETERNAL life.
IF it is NOT eternal life then it is only TEMPORARY life.
It CANNOT be eternal life if it is temporary or life that can be lost.
Please by faith reach out to Jesus and make these great TRUTHS yours.
All you have to do is give up...surrender ... admit to God that you have already blown the keeping of the 10 c'S, that you are a sinner and CANNOT save yourself.
Ask Jesus to save you. That is what He came to do. His answer is YES, and the rest is up to Him to present you perfect and blameless, without blemish before the Father. He will not lose one that is placed into His hand.
What are you waiting for????
It is my heartfelt prayer that you will enter into HIS FINISHED WORK ON YOUR BEHALF, HIS BLESSED ETERNAL REST tonight.
Good Night Jim
much love
handmaiden |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1044
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2010 - 6:19 am: | |
Thank You Handmaiden.
I am absorbing all this as best I can. It takes time.
I have more thoughts to explore on a new string soon. See you there, yes?
Jim |
|
