| Author | Message | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2260 Registered: 5-2007  |
Here is a warning to those who would follow a prophet not found in Scripture and changes Scripture's clear teaching:
1. Peter was with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, Matt. 17:1-4. 2. Moses was there talking with Jesus. Note well that the Bible never says Moses was resurrected. He was and still is dead, awaiting the resurrection of the righteous. 3. The unrighteous dead, on the other hand, are in chains in hell (sheol, the place of the dead) awaiting their final judgment. An Adventist needs to ask; What is in chains, since the body is dead and in the grave? 4. All prophecy comes from God and does not come by the will of man. 5. If false prophecy is not from God and does not originate from mankind, what is the source of false prophecy? 6. We are warned that there are false prophets. 7. False prophets, when they die, are condemned to chains of gloomy darkness, along with the other wicked dead. Now, here is a final warning given in II Peter Chapter Two concerning false prophets:
Peter uses the word 'vomit'. What is the vomit of a false prophet? Fearless Phil | ||
| Willy430 Registered user Username: Willy430 Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2006 |
No one has responded to this thread yet, but Jude 1:9 says the body of Moses was reclaimed. As a typological example of Christ he represented the the resurrection of Christ. On the mount Peter clearly saw Moses. As to point 3 the other side of Sheol is the place for the righteous dead, until the price was paid by Christ. Christ clearly shot down the concept of God as a giant repository of "dead" spirits, He is the God of the living not the dead. | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2009 |
Does arguing over or disputing over the body of Moses equal resurrection? J9 | ||
| Willy430 Registered user Username: Willy430 Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2006 |
since being seen on the mount of transfiguration, yes, I would say so. The scripture also says Christ was a prophet like Moses, typologically it would be correct to have him resurrected. http://www.inplainsite.org/html/moses_messianic_prophecy.html Moses was a direct representative agent for Israel, so claim he remained in the ground is nearly denying the resurrection of Christ. A simple question is what would God do with a dead body? Where in scripture do you find the dead in the direct presence of the Lord? | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2009 |
I know I am reacting because I was taught this as an SDA - they need the resurrected body of Moses because of soul sleep. There is no spirit. I just don't think the bible clearly gives this fact. So if SDAism uses rationale, then I am wary of any other 'cleverly contrived arguments'. This is not about you, Willy430. It's about me & my baggage. I took a look at your link & it is interesting & compelling. Fearless Phil, sorry! don't mean to hijack your thread. J9, hoping someone will answer your question | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11882 Registered: 12-2003  |
Willy, first of all, Jude 9 says this:
This verse does not say "reclaimed"--at least, it does not say Michael "reclaimed" it. It says Michael and Satan disputed over Moses' body. This idea was apparently a very common Jewish idea and was written in a document called "the Assumption of Moses". While the extra-biblical source was not inspired, Jude, who was inspired to write this book, apparently believed that this exchange was true. The point of Jude 9, BTW, is to show that Michael (who clearly cannot be Jesus) did not dare to rebuke Satan but instead said, "The Lord rebuke you." Jesus, we know from his wilderness temptation, definitely rebuked Satan. Back to Moses. We simply are not told whether or not Moses was taken to heaven and resurrected. The fact that he appeared on the Mt of Transfiguration could imply that God gave him a body, or it could simply be that, as angels can assume bodies when needed, Moses' spirit likewise was given a body. We're just not told. The spirits that are with God are not "dead" spirits. They are living spirits, spirits that were born again and given the life of God by the indwelling Holy Spirit. They have eternal life, and 2 Cor. 5:1-10 describes that a person is either at home in his body or away and with the Lord. As Paul said in verse 10, whether we are at home or away, we make it our goal to please the Lord Jesus. "Dead" spirits are the lost, and they are not in the presence of the Lord. They are under His control and care, being held for final punishment, but they are not with the Lord. So, one does not need to have a body to be with the Lord, according to 2 Cor 5:1-10 and Phil 1:22-23. Moreover, Jesus did not need a body for His Spirit to be with the Father when Jesus died. Typologically, Christ being a prophet like Moses doesn't mean Moses had to be resurrected. It simply means Jesus revealed God's will and the new covenant in a way parallel to the way Moses revealed to Israel God's will and the Sinai covenant. John 1:17, in fact, describes the similarity and contrast between Moses and Jesus:
Types never reveal all the aspects of the reality. The Day of Atonement sacrifice, for example, was killed on the altar and its blood sprinkled upon the mercy seat by the high priest. That sacrifice, however, was not resurrected—but Jesus the true Sacrifice was resurrected. Similarly, the high priest was a type of Jesus. Yet the Israelite high priests were never sacrificed or resurrected. And the scapegoat was sent outside the camp bearing the nation's sins. But the scapegoat was not killed by the high priest. Types are not intended to reflect all the facts of the real. Elijah was also a type of Christ as well as of John the Baptist. Yet Elijah never died. Phil, is the false prophet's "vomit" his original darkness and natural sin—which he (or she) never renounced but only camouflaged? Colleen | ||
| Willy430 Registered user Username: Willy430 Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2006 |
[quote]Types never reveal all the aspects of the reality. The Day of Atonement sacrifice, for example, was killed on the altar and its blood sprinkled upon the mercy seat by the high priest. That sacrifice, however, was not resurrected—but Jesus the true Sacrifice was resurrected. Similarly, the high priest was a type of Jesus. Yet the Israelite high priests were never sacrificed or resurrected. And the scapegoat was sent outside the camp bearing the nation's sins. But the scapegoat was not killed by the high priest. Types are not intended to reflect all the facts of the real. Elijah was also a type of Christ as well as of John the Baptist. Yet Elijah never died. [/quote] | ||
| Willy430 Registered user Username: Willy430 Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2006 |
sorry I guess I don't know how to post here yet. In the above comment some key issues are not addresses as cleanly as could be possible. The second goat was not killed representing the work of Christ, since the Jews were unable to resurrect the first goat a second identical goat was required. Elijah of course would represent those saints that would not see death. My point that the single most pronounced prophet who was said to be most like Christ, would most likely be resurrected, as for the High Priests they were dabbed with blood on their thumbs big toes and head, before they entered the priesthood, Christ shed His blood in almost the same way by His own blood upon His death, which coincidently began His priestly ministry. While typology should not be a source of doctrine, it certainly can be a strong guide if your theology deviates from the type. I especially liked your point about new test. authors who quote non cannonical books, those facts present special considerations for a serious student of scripture. |
