| Author | Message | ||
| Harpazo Registered user Username: Harpazo Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2010 |
One of the doctrinal issues that continues to be an area of uncertainty for me is that of once saved always saved. The word of God has been convincing me that I am assured of salvation, but the lingering SDA doctrine, if that is all it is, works in the back of my mind to tell me otherwise. Also, are there those who are not called? If so, why not? This is a translation of Jude 1 that really speaks to me. "Jude, a bond slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James to those who by God the Father have been loved and are in a state of being the permanent objects of His love and who for Jesus Christ have been guarded and are in a permanent state of being carefully watched to those who are called ones." Weiss I would love to hear the thoughts of those who have been convicted in these areas and all scripture that has helped. | ||
| Gorancroatia Registered user Username: Gorancroatia Post Number: 87 Registered: 6-2010 |
there is a book Chosen by God, from Sproul...Calvinist, but good book from different views. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11764 Registered: 12-2003  |
Harpazo, this has been an issue that has risen over and over through the years for me—but it has gotten increasingly clear. First, John 4:25 and John 3:18 really tell me that when we trust Christ Jesus and accept His blood in payment for our sin, He gives us life and we are eternally saved. Also, Colossians 1:13 states that God has transferred us from the domain of darkness to the kingdom of His beloved Son. That opening statement from Jude impacts me as well. It unequivocally states that God Himself keeps us and holds us secure. The issue of "works" only makes sense when we look at it from a position of already having been saved. Paul and Jesus and Peter instruct us over and over to live lives worthy of our calling...but these warnings are not warnings about losing our salvation. That's the error with which Adventism "warped" me. 1 Cor. 3:11-17 explains that we will be given rewards for the work we've done while in our bodies. But these rewards are not salvation. Salvation is a GIFT. We do not receive salvation based upon the works we do. Rather, AFTER we are saved, God is laying up rewards for us based on the work we do by the Spirit. If we do works that are from the flesh and are not building on the true foundation of the gospel, those works will be burned up. But, verse 15 says that the person himself will be saved—even if his works are destroyed—but he will be saved as one escaping through the flames. But he is saved. The parable of the soils in Matthew 13 has been one of the most helpful things of all as I've thought through this issue. The good soil grew healthy, productive plants. The hard path did not even receive the gospel seeds. The rocky soil, however, did receive the gospel seeds and healthy-looking plants germinated and grew. The weedy soil also received the seeds and produced plants. But, as life continued, the plants in the rocky soil did not survive the heat. It turned out that, although they appeared to be true gospel plants, they had no roots, and they died. Similarly, the gospel plants in the weeds were choked and starved, and the soil had to nourish the cares of the world, and there was no nourishment for the gospel plant. They became puny and died. So, what I am seeing is this: people can respond to the gospel yet resist actually surrendering their lives to the Lord Jesus. They can like the theology, the lifestyle, the fellowship of the body, and the idea of salvation through Jesus. But unless they completely submit to Him and live by His word, they have divided loyalties. They try to grow the gospel in their lives while holding onto other things as well. They nourish their greed, or their arrogance, or their comfort or positions...and the gospel plant starves. The plants in rocky soil never put down roots. Under the surface, under the good-sounding words and even the good works, they have no roots drawing food from the word of God and from the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The plants never mature, and they die. In both cases, the doomed plants are not doomed because they were saved but then were lost; they are doomed because they never fully committed themselves to allowing the gospel to fill their minds and hearts and offering themselves as living sacrifices to the Lord Jesus. They held onto things that kept their hearts divided. And the plants never produced fruit. People can be saved, according to 1 Cor 3 and Romans 8, but still do works fueled by the flesh. Their rewards will be affected, but their birth and adoption are secure. Others can outwardly appear to be saved, but their hearts have not surrendered and made Jesus their Lord. They have not received the Holy Spirit's indwelling. Judas is an example of such a person. As for election, the Bible teaches it, and we are also instructed to believe. We have to believe both are true.The Bible also says God is not willing than any should perish, and the Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of believers (1 Tim. 4:10). I cannot explain how it works. I do know that it makes sense mostly when we look back at our own lives. Prior to knowing Jesus, we see "Come unto me" written over the doorway to Jesus. After we accept Him, we look back at that same doorway and see, "Accepted from the foundation of the world." These facts of election and belief I believe are best understood when we take them to heart in our own life. We are only asked to trust Jesus ourselves, and then He assures us that He foreknew, called, chose, predestined, justified, and sanctified and glorified us from all eternity. I can't explain the "how" of it. I have to believe it—and I have to act on it when the Holy Spirit convicts me. Colleen | ||
| Jlondon81 Registered user Username: Jlondon81 Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2004 |
Every time I post on here I seem to make some mention of Bob George's Classic Christianity. Perhaps the fact that it has made such an impact in my understanding of the Gospel is why. George uses an illustration to help explain why we cannot lose our salvation. (I'll paraphrase.) Say a man has cancer and dies. Now say you have the ability to help him. If you cure the man's cancer and do nothing else, the man is cancer-free, but still dead. If you raise the man to life and do nothing else, the man is still has the cancer and will die again. In order to truly help the man, you have to both cure the cancer and raise the man to life. Paul wrote that we are all dead in sin before Christ. He also wrote that the penalty for sin is death. Jesus took care of the sin issue FOREVER at the cross (see Hebrews 9 & 10). In other words, Jesus removed from us the cancer which causes death, sin. But that's only half of it. Jesus said He came to give us life. Whose life? HIS life! And His life is eternal. So at the moment of accepting His sacrifice for us, He raises us to life spiritually by giving us His eternal life! This is the only way the conversation with Nicodemus makes any sense. Our salvation is secure forever because it's dependent on the life of Christ, which is eternal. The major stumbling block in this is the issue of sin. If you cannot accept that the sin issue has been dealt with forever, then you will have issues with the concept of salvation. As for being chosen or elected, I have honestly never understood why there has been centuries of disagreement over this when the Bible makes this crystal clear. Why would God go through the trouble "fearfully and wonderfully" making us to only not choose us to be saved? It seems to go against the character of God IMO. Instead Paul, while addressing the believers in Ephesus, implies all humanity to be elected by God before Creation. We, of course, have to choose Him. He then expands this point in chapter 2 to drive home the point of the Jews and Gentiles being one in the Gospel (see the second half of Acts and Galatians). I do however sympathize with those trying to remove the SDA glasses because of the years of deception. Joel | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2010 |
Thank you for that Colleen. =) "...when we look back at our own lives. Prior to knowing Jesus, we see 'Come unto me' written over the doorway to Jesus. After we accept Him, we look back at that same doorway and see, 'Accepted from the foundation of the world.'" What a beautiful picture! | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1074 Registered: 12-2007 |
Thank you Colleen and Joel  I have to write those comments down. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1075 Registered: 12-2007 |
I remember while a SDA sitting in church and singing "Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine.." and now I wonder why they even bother singing that song... as they have NO assurance if they truly believe the doctrines and Ellens Whites teachings that they claim to believe. | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 104 Registered: 2-2010 |
Skeeter, we sang that recently. The line, "Visions of Rapture now burst on my sight..." has a whole new meaning to me now! =D | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1445 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome Harpazo! And Jlondon, I don't think I welcomed you yet. Welcome! (I don't read everything, so I could miss people. There are a whole lot of new and fairly new people here now. The Lord must be calling them out of "Babylon"!!!) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8613 Registered: 3-2004  |
JLondon was on here before I came on here 6 years ago March. WOW!!!!! It seems such a short time. Love all of you. Diana L | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 138 Registered: 2-2010 |
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory." Eph. 1:13-14 Holy Spirit = Guarantee of our inheritance Guarantee = an assurance for the fulfillment of a condition: as (a: ) an agreement by which one person undertakes to secure another in the possession or enjoyment of something. (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.) "Having believed, you were marked in him with a SEAL, the promised Holy Spirit" SEAL = a : to confirm or make secure by or as if by a seal <seal> b : to solemnize for eternity (as a marriage) by a Mormon rite 2) a : to set or affix an authenticating seal to; also : authenticate, ratify b : to mark with a stamp or seal usually as an evidence of standard exactness, legal size, weight, or capacity, or merchantable quality 3) a : to fasten with or as if with a seal to prevent tampering b : to close or make secure against access, leakage, or passage by a fastening or coating c : to fix in position or close breaks in with a filling (as of plaster) 4) : to determine irrevocably or indisputably <sealed> |
