| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6773 Registered: 9-2006  |
It seems we have never (That I can remember) really explored generational Bondage. Now there are members of the forum who WERE, not are now, second, third, and even fourth generation SDA. I think this needs to be explored in depth. Colleen remarked:If we don't immerse ourselves in Bible study with "regular" Christians, we tend to retain pockets of false assumptions that take a very long time to come into focus (if they ever do), and we tend to retain the feeling that we know the Bible better than those mere Christians who didn't take the Bible as seriously as we did. I think we need to explore generational bondage more than we have in the past, how it affects us, and how we can get rid of those 'pockets' of false assumptions caused by generational bondage. How generational bondage affects those who are still in Adventism, and how it makes it so very difficult to evangelize them. We need to ask questions, what is generational bondage, does it really exist? If so why? Are we afraid to explore generational bondage because we are afraid we will question Gods sovereignty? What Colleen said about 'pockets' of false assumptions, are these also pockets of resistance? Colleen says:we tend to retain pockets of false assumptions that take a very long time to come into focus (if they ever do), Notice the (if they ever do), we want to make sure they are searched out, found and dealt with. Merwin Rhoades and I talked about CB theology, a term that applies to truckers who get their theology from listening to the radio in their long haul trucks. Is this what the former ends up with? If ask what are you? Can you say, I am CatholicBaptistMethodistPentecostalLutherannondenomiantional? Or have you just traded one set of beliefs for another set of beliefs that you find you are comfortable with? I know formers who have done that, and they are just as much this as they were that. They traded chains for chains. The generational bondage has not been broken, no matter how much use they make Christian sounding words. You can be a saved Christian and still be in bondage. How do we get rid of bondage? Can you think of more questions to ask concerning generational bondage? If we can understand generational bondage better, we may be able to evangelize Adventist better. If God had meant for us to have no understanding, do you think he would have said, "With all thy getting, get it in proverbs? Getting understanding is not necessarily knowledge; many people have knowledge, yet have no understanding. Lori said, "You really do get the whole "adventist preparation day frenzy/paranoia/pride/idolatry.... Yes, I do get it, because my getter got to really getting after the get, and I kept getting till I got. And I don't have a good enough understanding into this generational thing. Is there more to it than simple raising? How does generational bondage work to debilitate the next one in line? Is generational bondage a biblical term? Can we find answers out of the word of God? River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6778 Registered: 9-2006 |
Folks, I have not found one shred of scriptural evidence for generational bondage once a person has come to Jesus for the atonement if his/her sins. Of course there is Numbers 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. But we can’t take one scripture and make a doctrine out of that. Rather the evidence against what we might think of as generational bondage is greatly against generational bondage. One- we are under the new covenant if we have gone to Jesus for the atonement. Here is what the bible does say: Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Galatians 5:1 says Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. We don’t need to be yet again entangled in the yoke of bondage of which Jesus atonement has set us free, I don’t care how many generations your family goes back in Adventism. If you want to get set free from generational bondage, get saved. Is generational bondage a false teaching? I believe it is. We have to take what the bible says, not what teaching men come up with. Freedom in Christ has come at a great price, so we should not allow ourselves to be led or go back into bondage his death has set us free of. Now, is there bondage passed down from generation to generation? Of course we see evidence of this in Adventism, but once saved, it ain’t your fathers Oldsmobile. Lets look at Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. Then you’ll notice on down where they say in Luke 4:22 is this not josephs son? Then on down to Luke 4:24 And he said, Verily, I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. The Adventist might say to you, is this not the son or daughter of so and so who has been fourth generation Adventist? Well…nope, you have been made a child of God. That’s whose son or daughter you are. Now I want to give an example, I like examples, it’s the way God deals with me. Lets say I am a very poor man who lives down by the tracks, and it is my greatest desire to belong to the country club, but I don’t have any money, and the fee to join is very high. Now lets say that a rich man decides to have mercy on me, and pays the fee for me. Now I can go to the country club, I have all the rights and privileges that membership entails. I am free to go and come as I wish. I can swim, play golf, tennis, watch tv, have a soda, anything that the membership carries with it. But if I confess and say, “No, he didn’t really buy me a card.” I go right back to being in bondage to living a poor life down by the tracks. An awful lot of the time, our own confession puts us back into bondage. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1413 Registered: 3-2009 |
River quotes I'm wondering what will happen if "ye do not continue"? Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11737 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, very, very insightful post. I agree with you. Once we repent of our sin and as we release to Jesus the sins He brings to our attention after He saves us, He breaks their bondage in us. As I understand it, we do seem to have "unconscious" spiritual attachments to the sin into which we are born or into which we chose to become enmeshed (or perhaps a better description is "spiritual blindness" to the the sin into which we are born). For example, I believe that I (I'll use myself as an example!) was born into the spiritual darkness and bondage of Adventism, but I had no understanding that I was deceived and bound. The spirit of Adventism had a claim on me, and I was unaware of it. The Lord Jesus, however, draws us to Him and gives us the opportunity (over and over again) to believe and trust Him, and when we accept Him and are born again, the more reality He can reveal to us...and we follow Him right out of the spiritual bondage that identified us. Yes, I believe sin can become almost a "hereditary" thing...not physically, necessarily, but spiritually somehow. And yet, this fact does not automatically make us helpless. God reveals Himself to us. I agree with you that generational bondage is not a biblical teaching. I've thought often of this...and the reason I believe this is so significant is that when we understand our "plight" to be "generational", we have a sense of being unable to address that problem except by some sort of "deliverance". The Bible, however, persistently asks us to repent. Sin is sin--not merely a "generational curse". God doesn't give us the "out" of saying, "I'm hopelessly entangled because of my heritage; I have to find someone to pray for me to be released from this spirit." Rather, He asks us to repent. Even if we are born into deep sin and marked by sin perpetrated against us, we are asked to repent of the sin we then commit because of the sin that shaped us. When we keep looking for a way to be "delivered", we never "own" our sin. We have to repent. Renouncing the spirit of Adventism, for example, is a process of repentance. It signifies that we are acknowledging we have been part of something—even unwittingly—that is rooted in darkness and has evil at it's founding core. It means admitting that our entire worldview and way of thinking about Jesus and salvation has been skewed by false teaching—and that false teaching about Jesus comes only from one place: the father of lies. When we renounce Adventism, we are admitting our sin into which we were born, and we are inviting the Lord Jesus to place His Spirit in the place where Adventism used to live and shape our understanding. We are offering our minds and hearts in that renouncing of Adventism to the Lord Jesus, asking Him to make them His throne. And River, you're so right about our confession. We must believe that when the Lord Jesus makes us His—that is our only identity. We can only have one identity at a time; we can't be both "child of God" and "sinner". We can't be both "child of God" and "anorexic" or "alcoholic". We can be saved IN our sin, but our new identity replaces our old identities, and now God gives us His power and love and purpose to live in His identity, surrendering our habitual clinging to our old sin. We become transformed by the renewing of our minds as the Holy Spirit makes us aware of our old desires and habits and gives us the desire to hold them loosely, giving up our tight grip of control and fear, and allowing His Spirit to identify us. Thanks for the thread and the insights, River. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6780 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hec, sorry about the KJV, its just that I have to use it to search for scripture that many times I try to bring more clarity too with other versions of the Bible. The KJV is the book I cut my teeth on 38 years ago, and its the way I 'remember' my scripture. I usually just cut and paste out of the KJV because of limited time. As for your question, I think now, and it is just my thoughts on it and keeping in mind, no time to study it out, but if we do NOT contine in the faith, both grounded and settled, than our hearts (Holy Spirit) will begin to bring us under conviction, then it's time to go on our prayer bones and ask forgiveness. once having done so, we pick up where we left of and go on. We backslide, drift away from God, various ways, and when we do, the Holy Spirit brings us back to a place of repentance, and when he does that, we best not rebel but repent. I think a true Christian who has had a heart for God WILL repent. lets take the son who went away and found himself eating husk, there was never a time that he was not the son of the father, his fathers house was always there. Sometimes hec, we find ourselves eating slop with the hogs, bitterly eating beside the pigs, instead of eating at the table of good food God has for us. Now one day we wake up, and say,"What am I doing eating with the hog?" Then we go dragging our tails back to our fathers house, in a contrite spirit of repentance, and do you know what? The father rejoices. He don't say, "Well Hec, you been down there eatin with the pigs again, so I am going to give you a month of repentance. Oh, how good our father is! He knows where you been, what you've been doing, and he says, "Welcome home son, I love you so much." God has a table set, fish on the fire, when we are hungry, he feeds us, when we are thirsty he gives is clear water. Isn't God wonderful Hec? When I have time, I will post an article just for you, in case you haven't seen it, if you have, please read it again, it is a word picture of the fathers love and care. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1417 Registered: 3-2009 |
WOW! River, thanks for the devotional. Yes, God IS wonderful! Hec | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1418 Registered: 3-2009 |
Now, on the theological side, What happens if I don't continue? If I hear the Spirit convicting me and I don't pay attention? Hec | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2010 |
Excellent study River! The saying "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree" comes to mind.  | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 170 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you River. I needed this. It's back to Where is my FOCUS? Yes we are born sinners. Yes our forefathers may have participated in behaviors & beliefs that we learned from them. Then I participated in building the shoddy wall with inferior mortar. I learned in my 12 Step recovery that up to the point where I landed at the bottom, my behavior may have been 'without choice.' But from now on my eyes are opened, I admit & acknowledge my own behavior for what it is - MINE, & I CHOOSE my behaviors. As a believer in Christ I CHOOSE HIM - He did it all. I do nothing but accept & believe - & praise, worship, & thank Him for His grace & mercy, & loving kindness. J9 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6782 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well hec, some say that you can lose your very soul and be cast into hell. Some say that you can't lose your soul, and I think you can lose the blessings of God, but you will be saved, even so as by fire. In other words you will barely skin through them pearly gate with the stink of smoke rising off you, and you'll look like the old wily coyote when he inadvertently sets off one of his own bombs trying catch the road runner! And everybody will turn and look at you and say. "Eeyweoo, you stink Hec, please follow behind a few paces!. Seriously, I just cannot feature anyone going into open rebellion against the Holy Ghost, it just scares me to think about it. River | ||
| Harpazo Registered user Username: Harpazo Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2010 |
Being born into the “generational bondage” of the SDA deception could have been the end of me. I believe that the Lord called me as a child, but the powerfully persuasion of devoted parents influenced me to believe that the perfection achieved by Christ was necessary in my life if I were to be sanctified and found righteous before God on the day of my judgment. Realizing this and the being convicted of my sinful nature was enough to convince me that I would always fail and led me to the decision to turn away from the Lord. There were many conscious decisions to go in direct rebellion and sin willfully. A decade later having had the “fun” that the world has to offer I had learned what it means to be separated from God. If I do not follow the leading of the Spirit and stay connected and rooted in the word I will become more like whatever or whoever I am following and “beholding”. The result of this is Gods discipline. For me an old testament style captivity and bondage that I now believe was His way to bring me into His truth. I can claim none of the good in my life, but instead I owe it to Him because He "called, kept and loved me" back to Himself. By the way it has been a blessing to read the spirited discussions here and I am looking forward to reading further. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11757 Registered: 12-2003 |
Harpazo, welcome to the forum! I'm so glad you've joined us. Very important comments about the necessity of recognizing one's total separation from God. Until we realize we are hopeless and need a Savior, we just don't submit ourselves to Him. God is faithful. So glad you're here! Colleen | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 87 Registered: 2-2010 |
Could one equate "generational bondage" with brainwashing? I may need to be cleared up on this. It seems to me that the bondage Christ has saved us from is that of sin and death, not necessarily faulty world views & brain washing. Not that He can't or that He isn't ready and willing, but those don't just fall to the side when we are saved. If they did, then I am not saved (though I happen to know I am =D), because I am constantly seeing how my world view is wrong and am constantly unpacking the generational lies I have been taught (only when I am abiding in the word and in fellowship with true believers). I own my new identity as a child of God, but I also own the fact that I have lived in deep sin and have a lot of repenting to do in order to turn more and more of myself over to Jesus and experience the fullness He has to offer in this life. The SDA world view and the spirit of Adventisim comes with a brand of brainwashing that is not shed over night. Perhaps it's semantics? I don't know, I may be completely lost...sorry. Very interesting stuff. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2589 Registered: 8-2004  |
Welcome Harpazo! | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2010 |
Welcome, Harpazo! ;) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1426 Registered: 3-2009 |
Welcome to the forum, Harpazo. Hec | ||
| Karethamiller Registered user Username: Karethamiller Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2010  |
I'll be watching this discussion with interest...I feel similar to Free2dance, in that I am unpacking slowly all the wrong ideas that I didn't realize were there...regarding my view of the gospel, salvation, Jesus....you name it. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8602 Registered: 3-2004  |
Harpazo, welcome to FAF. It is always good to have newbies here. God has taken you out of adventism and brought you here to heal. You cannot heal by yourself. Diana L | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 171 Registered: 3-2009 |
yes, layers of the veil keep getting stripped away as I (as Free2dance said) am abiding in the Word and fellowshipping with true believers. So many wrong ideas, as Karetha says, regarding my view of the gospel, salvation, Jesus, everything! | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 728 Registered: 6-2005  |
Welcome Harpanzo, glad you jumped in. Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I agree with Free that semantics is part of the problem in discussing this issue. There is a "bondage" that comes from the incestuous sociailization and indoctrination of cultic religious groups. Is it spiritual? In part, at least, I believe so. Certainly cultural. I personally think there are spiritual strongholds among people groups. I believe there are generational curses and generational blessigs spoken of in the Bible. When Im less tired Ill try to back that with scripture. Most importantly, I believe that God promises to deliver those who seek Him, or seek "truth", which of course IS Him. The cutlic pressure is intense, but Gods call is stronger. Many of us here are proof of that, haven given up much of our culture, jobs, families to follow Jesus! Lori | ||
| Leighpinski Registered user Username: Leighpinski Post Number: 99 Registered: 8-2010  |
Thank you for writing this River! LA | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6815 Registered: 9-2006 |
Welcome Harpazo, I seem to be late in welcoming you to this place. River | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 820 Registered: 7-2008  |
River...I am still waiting for my welcome too...lol lol lol | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6818 Registered: 9-2006 |
Hey, did I miss you too Animal? Welcome Animal! Come on in and drag up a den! Would you like a root beer and perhaps some pop corn tossed to you? River | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 821 Registered: 7-2008 |
You are tooooo kind...thanks !!! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 581 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi Harpazo! Welcome to the forum, where we help/encourage each other with the un-packing, with God's grace and power. Some of us have only unpacked our socks!! Others have most of their suitcases empty, only to discover there is another layer of clothing hidden away at the bottom! Some have trunks and others have moving vans. It's such a joy to get rid of all our ripped, dirty and stained clothing, although at times we have trouble letting the items go. We are surprised at what they really look like, because they used to look shiny and bright--but then it was difficult to see clearly because of that thick veil we were all wearing! |
