| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3364 Registered: 10-2004  |
Here is a quote from Ellen G. White that I just found and posted in the Members Only section, but I thought I would start a new thread for it in the public section:
Any thoughts on this quote? Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11610 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, my goodness. First, here is more evidence that Ellen did not see Jesus as Almighty God. He could be "pulled down" from "his exalted position". Moreover, this quote restates the EGW assertion that God exalted Jesus--that he had NOT been equal to the Father before he was "exalted". (Frankly--that's a pretty Mormon concept...exaltation...) Additionally, this quote shows that EGW believed Satan had a "fair chance" of defeating Jesus. At least, he had the "permission" to take him on. The Bible never, ever suggests such blasphemy. Satan has always known who Jesus is, and he has never believed Jesus was his "foe". He knows Jesus is his Creator and Lord. He may not acknowledge Him thus, but he knows. This quote also states Jesus had a fallen nature, and finally, it suggests that we, like Jesus, can overpower Satan. We, like Jesus can defeat satan's arrogant attempts to derail us. Wrong. We never defeat satan. Jesus defeated Satan, and when we are in Christ, alive with His life by the indwelling Holy Spirit, we can live in His victory--not ours. This quote summarizes Adventism's false Jesus and false assumption of power and familiarity Satan is supposed to have in relationship to Jesus, and suggests that salvation is about fallen flesh overcoming Satan. It's all false. And it's the shape of Adventist theology. Adventism has a different jesus. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3365 Registered: 10-2004 |
Exactly, Colleen. One other thing I noticed was the last part, where she says, "and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation." In other words, if Satan had "overpowered" Jesus, it would "hinder" the plan of salvation, but Jesus' perfect sacrifice was not necessarily required for the plan of salvation. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on August 26, 2010) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1769 Registered: 6-2006  |
Just from looking at the quote, Ellen White has: Degraded Jesus. By saying he was in an "exalted position", he would have had to achieved that position in some way which infers he was created, and in a less than exalted position. Exalted Satan. "Satan again rejoiced with his angels that he could pull down the Son of God from his exalted position". I ask this all the time, but how could Ellen White know that Satan is rejoicing about anything (was she with him?), and where in the Bible does it say that Satan can defeat or "pull down" the son of God? On the contrary, at the least, Jesus thwarted Satan's temptations on the mountain simply by telling him to bug off! Now who would want Satan exalted and Jesus degraded? I wish I could write more, but I have to get the kids to school...  Leigh Anne | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 951 Registered: 12-2007 |
quote: "Satan again rejoiced with his angels that he could, by causing man's fall, pull down the Son of God from his exalted position. He told his angels that when Jesus should take fallen man's nature, he could overpower him, and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 27, paragraph 1.) OH MY ! What did she mean by "Satan 'AGAIN' rejoiced with his angels" ?? She must have said something previous to this statement about Satan "rejoicing" if he according to Ellen "again rejoiced". What has Satan (since his fall) EVER had to REJOICE about ???? "when Jesus should take fallen man's nature, he could overpower him, and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation." To me this statement implies that Jesus taking on "mans nature" somehow took away from his Divinity. As Leigh Anne said above , when Jesus was tempted by Satan , He simply told Satan to leave and he HAD to leave. That shows that He was still in control , and still retained His DIVINE nature even while in a human body. How would EGW know what SATAN said to HIS fallen angels ? I know Ellen often said that her "accompanying angel" showed her different things and told her things.... it is becoming more and more apparent that if indeed she did have an "accompanying angel" that "angel" was not from Heaven. For her to even suggest that Satan has EVER had a chance to "overpower" Jesus... that is just... sick ! It is like she was saying that once Jesus took on human form that it would put Jesus and Satan on a level playing field and that it would be POSSIBLE for Satan to "win". Ellen was a very sick and deceived woman.:-( Francie | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 690 Registered: 1-2007 |
Isn't it somewhere in her writings that said Jesus and Satan where brothers or equals before the fall? That satan was jealous because God choose Jesus to be the creator and that is why he went after Eve? I was not raised in the church and it has been a long time since I have read anything she wrote and have forgotten it because I never really studied her. So I could be way off base. | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 163 Registered: 8-2006 |
Gcfrankie- I had heard something similar to what you posted, too. I'm not sure of the source but my in-laws believe lucifer and Christ were brothers or had a brotherly bond and that lucifer was angry with God because he chose Jesus to take part in creation and not himself. Cults have a way of 'playing down Jesus' and 'building up fear and legalism through false doctrine', it is really blasphemy against Jesus Christ and his Finished Work. With beliefs like this it is easy to see why Adventism has such a hard time defining the Trinity and why the early Adventists were anti-trinitarian. Maybe that's why many Adventists prefer the term GodHead over Trinity? just a guess.. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2539 Registered: 8-2004  |
Yes, many SDAs I knew considered the word Trinity to be a vestige of paganism and "Godhead" to be a much better word to use. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1370 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jeremy; I have the paper-back version of "Early Writings." Volumn One of "Spiritual Gifts" is the second half of the book, so it starts about page 133. What's the name of the chapter where that quote is? Then I could find it easily. Thanks Gcfrankie and Cortney; look in EGW's book "Spirit of Prophecy" Volumn One, starting in the second paragraph (about page 17). She makes it quite clear how Jesus was "promoted" to equality with the Father and how the angels had to be told about it. Obviously it was a new concept for them. It's frustrating how Adventists sometimes excuse the things she wrote. There's an Adventist where I work who said that the angels had to be "reminded" because of things going on, such as Satan's agitating. Even going by that Adventist's reasoning though, nothing was "going on" until the Father announced that Jesus "should be equal with himself" because it was only AFTER that, (according to Ellen White) that Satan got jealous. Besides which, angels aren't stupid. They wouldn't need reminding that Jesus is equal to the Father. (Message edited by Asurprise on August 28, 2010) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3366 Registered: 10-2004 |
Asurprise, It is chapter 3, "The Plan of Salvation."
Especially if there was only one God (who is an invisible spirit), anyway! Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3367 Registered: 10-2004 |
Skeeter,
Yes, she wrote in the previous chapter, regarding Adam and Eve's fall:
Jeremy | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1771 Registered: 6-2006 |
Still amazed that she was privy to all that Satan thought and felt. He must have been dictating to her... "Ellen, come into my office and take a letter!" Leigh Anne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8475 Registered: 3-2004  |
Like the way you think Leigh Anne!! Diana L | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 553 Registered: 1-2006  |
Leigh Anne I totally agree with what you are implying in your post, just above. Why does Ellen so often give us satan's viewpoint? Where did she get all that information about satan? Every time she does that, it tends to create sympathy, whether the reader realizes it or not. Satan was happy, satan was sad, satan felt that it was all unfair, poor dear satan, had a bad day. This sounds like utter blasphemy, but I grew up reading this by the truckload! I can distinctly remember feelings of sympathy for satan after reading Ellen. Why would satan have to offer to have a part in our salvation, after God had refused to save fallen man, as Ellen suggests? There is so much that is just plain from the dark side. Were we blind? (not you, Leigh Anne, but us formers?) Bob | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 783 Registered: 10-2006 |
Bob, yep, we were. It was that dreadful thick veil. 2 Cor. 3 Amazing Grace has a whole new meaning now when I sing "was blind but now I see." Praise Jesus! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 512 Registered: 5-2009 |
Come to think of it, after reading this discussion, I believe I used to feel kind of sorry for Satan--he was the underdog and her stuff helped me feel sympathy for him...didn't she say somewhere that he wanted to repent, with tears, but it was too late? As if God were being somewhat mean and unforgiving about it. (Or was that some weird dream I had after eating too many Big Franks?) | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2009 |
Bob, your post was very insightful. I too realize that the writings caused me to question & wonder & feel certain empathy. But you put it into words. Nowisee, I sort of remember something like that too. Joyfulheart, I just reread 2 Cor 3 with much more clarity! And YES! Amazing Grace has much more meaning to me too. Jeremy, I dislike reading all the EGW quotes 'cause I'm trying to get it all OUT of my brain! BUT I also need to see the deception more clearly. So OK. . . J9 | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2009 |
Oh, & Leigh Anne, I had never put it into a conscious thought - how did she know all that?? But I accepted the 'inspiration' lie. Would that not ENRAGE & INSULT the Holy Spirit?! NLT Heb 10:29&30 Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have INSULTED and ENRAGED the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3371 Registered: 10-2004 |
Nowisee, Yes, it's in the same book (actually the third paragraph of chapter 1!):
There is sooo much wrong with just this one paragraph. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11621 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bob, your post is right on. I've also thought those thoughts. Ellen's writings make Satan a tragic hero of sorts. Poor, benighted Satan...who repented too late. The Bible NEVER says Satan repented...we are not told his story. We only know Jesus did not come to help the angels (Hebrews 2), and that Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire. I've also thought that the high-visibility of Satan and the sympathetic presentation of him as beyond hope really is like a "thumbprint" of where her inspiration originated. Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 963 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yes, according to Ellen White...poor misunderstood Satan and his followers... their "repentance" was not acceptable to God.. If that were true, how could WE ever have the FAITH to believe that OUR repentant prayers were accepted and forgiven ? Not only was she creating sympathy for Satan because his so called "repentance" was not accepted.... BUT then she makes Satan our scapegoat,, the one taking on all our sins and he is banned from Heaven with all of our sins heaped onto himself. How could that not be meant to create sympathy for Satan ? Surely she was a "messenger" for Satan and NOT for God. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8483 Registered: 3-2004 |
I was just thinking that she was so sympathetic toward satan that he must have been the one to tell her. Diana L | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 556 Registered: 1-2006 |
This is totally off topic, but I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to Richard and Colleen and so many friends on this forum that have been such a blessing. Six years now, free forever in the Lord Jesus Christ! Bob | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 515 Registered: 5-2009 |
Agreeing right along with you, Bob!!! Jeremy, thank you for finding that quote! I thought so! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11635 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hurrah! Six years, Bob!! Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 742 Registered: 10-2008  |
I just saw this. Happy Anniversary Bob. Looks like we wer both saved in the same month. |
