| Author |
Message |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6493
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 4:11 am: |     |
You want to talk about the biblical approach sir, tell us what is biblical about the investigative judgment? Tell us what is biblical about soul sleep? Tell us what is biblical about the way sda children are raised, tell me what is biblical about being baptized into the church. Tell me what is biblical about the SDA necessity for perfection of character to be saved?
You are like a lot of other people, you try to come out of a cult such as SDA, but you keep looking back, and say, "There is something good in it."
Like the children of Israel who looked back on Egypt, and craved the leaks and garlic's of Egypt.
You quickly forget the stripes laid across your back, the demands to make brick without even straw.
Adventism produces fear, worry, discontentment, abasement, false doctrine, a false view of who Jesus is (refer back to investigative judgment.
Not to mention it produces formers who come out bruised and bleeding, scared and not knowing where to turn or who to turn too, they certainly cannot turn to the people that caused this in the first place, now can they?
So now tell me. What are you looking back on that is good? You want to come on here and accuse these people of being judgmental of Adventism?
You want to talk about zeal? Lets talk about the SDA zeal to suck innocent people including evangelical Christians, so far down into a cult it will take them 15 to 20 years of misery before they can ever see the light of day again.
Well ok Mr. You tell us the good points of Adventism, what are they?
Now you go ahead and tell us about the good stuff, you got the floor!
River |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:25 pm: | |
Quote:
quote:I just think that we all are sometimes to zeal for refuting Sda that we are narrow to see some good staff.
Illustration:
You are invited to a place where there are lots of snakes, mosquitoes, tarantulas, centipedes, scorpions, and all kinds of venomous creatures. There are some chickens and some pigs.
Would you want to go to that place because of the "good things: chicken and pigs" that are there along with all the other bad stuff.? Would it be worthy when you can find good chicken and pigs some other place without all the bad junk?
Hec |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1352
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 6:18 pm: | |
Gorancroatia; we talk about Adventism a lot because we (most of us, anyway) used to be Adventist. We found that it's a false gospel that's really no gospel at all.
It's not the only false gospel though. You'll find former Roman Catholics warning of the dangers of the false gospel of Catholicism. The same with former Muslims, former Mormons and former Jehovah's Witnesses.
All of them were miraculously rescued from the various cults they were in, by the Lord. Therefore they want to praise Him and warn others. They want others to be saved too!
It's like a building on fire. Say there are people inside eating or something and you go to warn them. They complain that it's cold outside and being inside that building is the only place to be. Besides they like the food they're eating. Would you keep trying to warn them before it got to be too late, or would you just say, "oh well, at least they have good food" and go on your way? |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1238
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 6:33 pm: | |
Asurprise, I like your illustration.
Hec |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11544
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 9:50 pm: | |
Me, too, Asurprise--great analogy.
Gorancroatia, , Adventism has no "redeemable" features. The people are highly redeemable--and that is why the Lord Jesus is revealing the truth about Adventism. But an organization founded on the belief that Jesus is not Almighty God, is not eternal, that the Holy Spirit is not a person of the Trinity--an organization that built its central doctrine to cover up the heresy of date-setting, an organization that teaches as Bible truth the serious heresy that humans do not have spirits...the organization that continues to call its prophet "a continuing and authoritative source of truth"...this organization is a deception. It mimics a "church" but it teaches a different Jesus, a different gospel, and a false view of man.
The "Adventist god" is not sovereign over evil but instead has to "respect" satan's freedom of choice and will. The "Adventist god" cannot know the future fully. The "Adventist jesus" shed blood that carries defilement into heaven. This is not a saving message.
People are being lost, and no amount of potlucks, cultural sharing, or unique identity can redeem Adventism.
When we leave, we have to leave as Lot and his wife left Sodom: without turning back to look longingly at what we left. We have to allow the Lord Jesus to speak the truth to us, to lead us out, and to trust Him to lead us into "the valley of love and delight"—the valley we can't see until we renounce Adventism.
Adventism has a spiritual claim on Adventists. It's not something they "know" at first, but that extreme difficulty in admitting it's bankrupt and must be abandoned...that reluctance to call it what it is: evil—is the hold of the spirit of Adventism. It is spiritually dangerous, and we have to trust Jesus to retrain us and protect us and lead us to Himself.
Colleen |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 6:56 am: | |
Peter started by walking with Jesus and had much to learn as he built on the foundation - which is Christ.
SDAism started with unconfessed and unrepented-of date setting and added heresy after heresy onto that reiterated and reinterpreted foundation.
Paul had no reason to say Peter was not a Christian. He did, however, warn strongly about the fact that "in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils: Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" And what were these doctrines of devils? "Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. . . . 1 Timothy 4:1-3
The forbidding to marry was a part of the beginnings of SDAism, though it was disgarded around the time James and Ellen decided to get married, but the 'abstaining from meats' continues to this day, as do many other doctrines that obscure/change the gospel no gospel at all. It is not hatred for SDAs that causes us to cry out in warning and anguish. It would be false love that held our mouths shut when so many are facing a Christless future, building on the foundation of a false Christ and a false idea of God Himself. |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 6501
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 7:18 am: | |
You got that right Sistern-ette, due to the way Adventist per mote themselves, yall may be the only chance they have of hearing the gospel.
The evangelicals just aren't educated enough about Adventism to care much, nor do most all of them realize that Adventism is a mission field like any other.
So if yall don't speak to them, then who will? If, as they claim, there is 15 million of them and more coming into that every day, thats a lot of mission field seems to me.
So, if yall don't, I ask you? Whose going to do it?
But God will make Evangelist to Adventist out of the ones he wants too then too, won't he?
River |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 1:46 pm: | |
Helovesme2,
You know what I am going to ask, don't you?
quote:The forbidding to marry was a part of the beginnings of SDAism, though it was disgarded around the time James and Ellen decided to get married,
Can you give me some references as evidence to this statement? WOW! I've applied that verse to SDA but wasn't sure because of the forbidding to marry. If there is some evidence of that, it applies exactly to SDA.
Hec |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2490
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 6:18 pm: | |
Here is an article that discusses it and gives some direct quotes: Forbidding Marriage. I remember reading about it for myself a number of years ago, but do not now have ready access the sources I had it from. |
Sabbatismos
Registered user
Username: Sabbatismos
Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 6:14 pm: | |
It seems that EGW did forbid "marital relations" for a time. My husband is the big researcher in our family, and he's read accounts of SDA husbands who wouldn't even sleep at home for fear of "giving in to temptation" and having relations with their wives. One man wrote that he only trusted himself to meet his wife at the train station to talk with her. Apparently, this "testimony" for people who are married to "be as though they were not" was eventually retracked. I'm sure Willie White either burned it or it's hidden in the vaults at the EGW Estate. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 8439
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 12:37 pm: | |
I read & listened to what egw said and that and the attitude I learned from my mother helped ruin my marriage. SO GLAD TO FIND OUT SHE IS A FALSE PROPHET!!!
At the time I did not realize I had choices and how to use them. I have since learned. Thank you Awesome God.
Diana L
(Message edited by Flyinglady on August 14, 2010) |
Gorancroatia
Registered user
Username: Gorancroatia
Post Number: 47
Registered: 6-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 2:06 pm: | |
Helovesme2, interesting point.
But, an article uses E.W. texts which are not on doctrine but from specific context. She wrote lots of staff, some with easy hand.1 Timothy 4:1-3 can be for RC also, who knows...
In my country even JWs do some good staff: they learn to spoke with deaf peoples, end not proselyte them. So try to see that in some parts of the world it is different than in USA, peoples get theirs first Bible introduction from Adventists or even JWs, and I think that in all denominations "the good staff" is only that they read Bible, every other thing is addition or cutting short the Word. I do not think that FAF gives that big perspective, but could give... |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 478
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 12:31 am: | |
How much of an age difference was between James and Ellen? I always thought he was older than her... |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2512
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 5:59 am: | |
James White was born August 4, 1821
Ellen (Harmon) White was born November 26, 1827
They were six years apart. |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 481
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 6:17 pm: | |
Thanks--too tired to look it up last night. So, interesting how they had an age difference she condemned in her writings. (Course, maybe 6 yrs. didn't count  . Wow, even after she imparted her "vitality" to an "aged husband", he still died quite young, as I recall.
H-m-m..how does one "impart vitality"?? |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 482
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 6:25 pm: | |
Thanks--too tired to look it up last night. So, interesting how they had an age difference she condemned in her writings. (Course, maybe 6 yrs. didn't count . Wow, even after she imparted her "vitality" to an "aged husband", he still died quite young, as I recall. (speaking as a 'seasoned citizen' myself, that is!)
H-m-m..how does one "impart vitality"?? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11575
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 9:25 pm: | |
Haha! Nowisee, such good questions...
Gorancroatia, I understand what you are saying, but I think you're not seeing that the "doing good" of the cults is, overall, dangerous. People tend to bond deeply with those who help them significantly, and that bonding tends to make them trust those people when they move to the next step and teach them about "God".
The Centers for Apologetics Research has offices in Russia, Hungary, the Ukrain, Africa, and Brazil. The local people in those countries say Adventism and JW's are HUGE problems in central Europe, and LDS is as well. You can peruse the websites of the European offices of CFAR from here: http://www.thecenters.org
Notice that currently CFAR's featured resource is the new Christianity: Cults and Religions pamphlet from Rose Publishing which includes for the first time Adventism as an organization that differs from Christianity, and its featured Group is Seventh-day Adventism.
Colleen |
Gorancroatia
Registered user
Username: Gorancroatia
Post Number: 48
Registered: 6-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 12:49 am: | |
Scholar researches are long way from the real fields.
If you look missions form the beginning of Christianity till today, we have RC to be leaders in mission and later some protestants but in minor degree, and in last 200 years, SDA, Mormons,and again RC. So, if yours concerns are of so importance, that the False Gospel is preached, than we must conclude that in past 2000 years 90 % of Gospel preached was False Gospel!
RC tends to make bonds for Pope and Mary and Eucharists..... but must admit that RC translators keep translating the Bible from centuries, till the reformation, but OK not give them to peoples, but the texts of Bible was preserved by RC, we must admit that. Luther uses RC translation of Romans not some independent script. So is with SDAs....they are some of mission leaders in the World, now. Peoples are living in bad conditions, there in the World you will not find peoples like in USA, and there are not some other church (Baptists, or Free) on every street corner like in USA. So, if it be like you said, than the majority of World is influenced by False Gospel and I do not see much effort in preaching true Gospel know (that will be gospel without any additions). So, if you said that SDA is leading peoples to hell, what about those peoples who are not even SDAs but have no Gospel at all? Are they going to hell?
Paul said that he is pleased if Jesus Christ is preached even if from envy or strife!
The Name Jesus was preached last 2000 years, and you said it is False and leading to hell?
Be it like that, i think that all big picture is changed, who will preach True Gospel now ? Is that mean that the Gospel of Christ lost the war? Was last 2000 years lost in vain? |
Gorancroatia
Registered user
Username: Gorancroatia
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 1:05 am: | |
Phl 1:15
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will
Phl 1:16
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds
Phl 1:17
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
Phl 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 2517
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 7:42 am: | |
Goran, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. God can - and does - use anybody. That doesn't mean that everything taught is correct, or that we should turn a blind eye to false doctrine - especially false doctrines that teach 'yes, Jesus saves, but we must do x, y, and z also or we will be lost'.
The very same Paul who rejoiced that Christ is preached also spoke strongly to those who would tamper with the gospel:
Galations 1:6-7 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
and again:
Galatians 3:1-3 "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
Yes the SDAs do have missions in many places throughout the world, as do the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Muslims do too, for that matter, and even they preach Christ (though as an errant good teacher who will be straightened out by Allah at the Judgment - Muhammed, after all, drew from both Judaism and Christianity as he put Islam together and encouraged all Muslims to recognize both the Old and New Testaments as holy books, just not as holy as the Koran).
It is also true that witnesses to the gospel unmixed with the heresies taught by the groups just mentioned are not as common as they aught to be. Does that mean we should applaud? Should we sit back and say, O well, at least Christ is preached? Or should we pray the Lord of the harvest to send workers into the fields to be living witnesses to the joy of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone?
I am sad to hear of the lack of Christians in Croatia. Perhaps God is calling you to be one of those who lives your witness there?
Blessings,
Mary |
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