| Author | Message | ||
| Michaelsavedbygrace Registered user Username: Michaelsavedbygrace Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2010 |
The Cross has not abolished the call to repent! Repentance is not such a horrible thing, not at all, it is actually a wonderful gift of the Holy Spirit. Is the word "repent" taboo for an "ex-Adventist?" Is it something that is merely an option, but not really necessary? As New Covenant Christians we recognize that the Ten Commandments were abolished. We understand that we do not need to keep the Sabbath. We rejoice in that we do not have to live up the standards in Ellen White's writings. But does all of this mean repentance is optional, take it or leave it? We know that we are not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. Did you know that faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit? Another gift of the Holy Spirit is REPENTANCE! The Cross does not abolish the call of repentance! Does the goodness of God's grace turn repentance into something that is optional. No! It is the goodness of God's grace that gives us this wonderful gift of repentance. Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not KNOWING THAT THE GOODNESS OF GOD LEADETH THEE TO REPENTANCE? The message of John the Baptist was "REPENT" The first word that came out of Jesus mouth in public ministry after His baptism was "REPENT" Peter's message on Pentecost on the very day the church was founded was "REPENT" Charles Spurgeon was the great preacher of GRACE ALONE, and yet in his book "AND IF BY GRACE," he taught repentance! He is quoted later in this post. We need to understand what repentance is, and what it is not. Spurgeon makes this subject clear. I think you will like what he has to say on the topic. Martin Luther taught repentance. He is quoted later in this post. FIRST THE BIBLE Matt 3:2 2 And saying, REPENT ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matt 3:8 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for REPENTANCE: Matt 3:11 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matt 4:17 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, REPENT: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matt 9:13 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE. Mark 1:4 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of REPENTANCE for the remission of sins. Mark 1:15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: REPENT ye, and believe the gospel. Mark 2:17 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE. Mark 6:12 12 And they went out, and preached that men should REPENT. Luke 3:3 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of REPENTANCE for the remission of sins; Luke 3:8 8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of REPENTANCE, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Luke 5:32 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE. Luke 13:1 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. Luke 13:3 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye REPENT, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:5 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye REPENT, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 15:7 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that REPENTeth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no REPENTANCE. Luke 16:30 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will REPENT. Luke 17:3 3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he REPENT, forgive him. Luke 17:4 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I REPENT; thou shalt forgive him. Luke 24:47 47 And that REPENTANCE and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Acts 2:37-38 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 3:19 19 REPENT ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 5:31 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give REPENTANCE to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Acts 8:22 22 REPENT therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. Acts 11:18 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted REPENTANCE unto life. Acts 13:24 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of REPENTANCE to all the people of Israel. Acts 17:30 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to REPENT: Acts 19:4 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of REPENTANCE, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Acts 20:21 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, REPENTANCE toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 26:20 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should REPENT and turn to God, and do works meet for REPENTANCE. Romans 2:4 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to REPENTANCE? 2 Cor 7:9 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to REPENTANCE: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 2 Cor 7:10 10 For godly sorrow worketh REPENTANCE to salvation not to be REPENTED of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2 Tim 2:25 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them REPENTANCE to the acknowledging of the truth; Heb 6:1 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of REPENTANCE from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:6 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 7:21 21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not REPENT, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec  Heb 12:17 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears. 2 Peter 3:8 He tells the godly that God's long patience will hasten their REPENTANCE 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:9 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to REPENTANCE. Rev 2:5 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and REPENT, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou REPENT. Rev 2:16 16 REPENT; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev 2:21 21 And I gave her space to REPENT of her fornication; and she REPENTED not. Rev 2:22 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they REPENT of their deeds. Rev 3:3 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev 3:19 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT. MARTIN LUTHER's COMMENTS ON REPENTANCE Taken from "Luther's Commentary on Galatians" Galatians 2 The true way of salvation is this. First, a person must realize that he is a sinner, the kind of a sinner who is congenitally unable to do any good thing. “Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.” Those who seek to earn the grace of God by their own efforts are trying to please God with sins. They mock God, and provoke His anger. The first step on the way to salvation is to repent. ________________________________________ Galatians 2 Having been humbled by the Law, and having been brought to a right estimate of himself, a man will repent. He finds out that he is so depraved, that no strength, no works, no merits of his own will ever deliver him from his guilt. He will then understand the meaning of Paul’s words: “I am sold under sin”; and “they are all under sin.” ________________________________________ Galatians 3 The Apostle adds the afterthought: “If it be yet in vain. I do not despair of all hope for you. But if you continue to look to the Law for righteousness, I think you should be told that all your past true worship of God and all the afflictions that you have endured for Christ’s sake are going to help you not at all. I do not mean to discourage you altogether. I do hope you will repent and amend.” ________________________________________ Galatians 5 Christians also fall and perform the lusts of the flesh. David fell horribly into adultery. Peter also fell grievously when he denied Christ. However great these sins were, they were not committed to spite God, but from weakness. When their sins were brought to their attention these men did not obstinately continue in their sin, but repented. Those who sin through weakness are not denied pardon as long as they rise again and cease to sin. There is nothing worse than to continue in sin. If they do not repent, but obstinately continue to fulfill the desires of the flesh, it is a sure sign that they are not sincere. ________________________________________ Galatians 6 This ought to be borne in mind particularly by the ministers of the Word in order that they may not forget the parental attitude which Paul here requires of those who have the keeping of souls. Pastors and ministers must, of course, rebuke the fallen, but when they see that the fallen are sorry they are to comfort them by excusing the fault as well as they can. As unyielding as the Holy Spirit is in the matter of maintaining and defending the doctrine of faith, so mild and merciful is He toward men for their sins as long as sinners repent. ________________________________________ CHARLES SPURGEON'S COMMENTS ON REPENTANCE Taken from Spurgeon's book "All of Grace" All of Grace - Alas! I Can Do Nothing! I hear another man cry, “Oh, sir my want of strength lies mainly in this, that I cannot repent sufficiently!” A curious idea men have of what repentance is! Many fancy that so many tears are to be shed, and so many groans are to be heaved, and so much despair is to be endured. Whence comes this unreasonable notion? Unbelief and despair are sins, and therefore I do not see how they can be constituent elements of acceptable repentance; yet there are many who regard them as necessary parts of true Christian experience. They are in great error. Still, I know what they mean, for in the days of my darkness I used to feel in the same way. I desired to repent, but I thought that I could not do it, and yet all the while I was repenting. Odd as it may sound, I felt that I could not feel. I used to get into a corner and weep, because I could not weep; and I fell into bitter sorrow because I could not sorrow for sin. What a jumble it all is when in our unbelieving state we begin to judge our own condition! It is like a blind man looking at his own eyes. My heart was melted within me for fear, because I thought that my heart was as hard as an adamant stone. My heart was broken to think that it would not break. Now I can see that I was exhibiting the very thing which I thought I did not possess; but then I knew not where I was. ________________________________________ Alas! I Can Do Nothing! Remember that the man who truly repents is never satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ. If there be this turning, you have the essence of true repentance, even though no alarm and no despair should ever have cast their shadow upon your mind. ________________________________________ Alas! I Can Do Nothing! If you cannot repent as you would, it will greatly aid you to do so if you will firmly believe that “in due time Christ died for the ungodly.” Think of this again and again. How can you continue to be hard-hearted when you know that out of supreme love “Christ died for the ungodly”? Let me persuade you to reason with yourself thus: Ungodly as I am, though this heart of steel will not relent, though I smite in vain upon my breast, yet He died for such as I am, since He died for the ungodly. Oh that I may believe this and feel the power of it upon my flinty heart! ________________________________________ Alas! I Can Do Nothing! Surely the cross is that wonder-working rod which can bring water out of a rock. If you understand the full meaning of the divine sacrifice of Jesus, you must repent of ever having been opposed to One who is so full of love. It is written, “They shall look upon him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” Repentance will not make you see Christ; but to see Christ will give you repentance. You may not make a Christ out of your repentance, but you must look for repentance to Christ. The Holy Ghost, by turning us to Christ, turns us from sin. Look away, then, from the effect to the cause, from your own repenting to the Lord Jesus, who is exalted on high to give repentance. ________________________________________ Regeneration and the Holy Spirit God works in providence, but men do not therefore sit still. They could not move without the divine power giving them life and strength, and yet they proceed upon their way without question; the power being bestowed from day to day by Him in whose hand their breath is, and whose are all their ways. So is it in grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness Repentance must go with remission, and you will see that it is so if you think a little upon the matter. It cannot be that pardon of sin should be given to an impenitent sinner; this were to confirm him in his evil ways, and to teach him to think little of evil. If the Lord were to say, “You love sin, and live in it, and you are going on from bad to worse, but, all the same, I forgive you,” this were to proclaim a horrible license for iniquity. The foundations of social order would be removed, and moral anarchy would follow. I cannot tell what innumerable mischiefs would certainly occur if you could divide repentance and forgiveness, and pass by the sin while the sinner remained as fond of it as ever. In the very nature 94of things, if we believe in the holiness of God, it must be so, that if we continue in our sin, and will not repent of it, we cannot be forgiven, but must reap the consequence of our obstinacy. According to the infinite goodness of God, we are promised that if we will forsake our sins, confessing them, and will, by faith, accept the grace which is provided in Christ Jesus, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But, so long as God lives, there can be no promise of mercy to those who continue in their evil ways, and refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoing. Surely no rebel can expect the King to pardon his treason while he remains in open revolt. No one can be so foolish as to imagine that the Judge of all the earth will put away our sins if we refuse to put them away ourselves. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness Repentance and forgiveness are joined together in the experience of all believers. There never was a person yet who did unfeignedly repent of sin with believing repentance who was not forgiven; and on the other hand, there never was a person forgiven who had not repented of his sin. I do not hesitate to say that beneath the copes of Heaven there never was, there is not, and there never will be, any case of sin being washed away, unless at the same time the heart was led to repentance and faith in Christ. Hatred of sin and a sense of pardon come together into the soul, and abide together while we live. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness When we are sure that we are forgiven, then we abhor iniquity; and I suppose that when faith grows into full assurance, so that we are certain beyond a doubt that the blood of Jesus has washed us whiter than snow, it is then that repentance reaches to its greatest height. Repentance grows as faith grows. Do not make any mistake about it; repentance is not a thing of days and weeks, a temporary penance to be over as fast as possible! No; it is the grace of a lifetime, like faith itself. God’s little children repent, and so do the young men and the fathers. Repentance is the inseparable companion of faith. All the while that we walk by faith and not by sight, the tear of repentance glitters in the eye of faith. That is not true repentance which does not come of faith in Jesus, and that is not true faith in Jesus which is not tinctured with repentance. Faith and repentance, like Siamese twins, are vitally joined together. In proportion as we believe in the forgiving love of Christ, in that proportion we repent; and in proportion as we repent of sin and hate evil, we rejoice in the fullness of the absolution which Jesus is exalted to bestow. You will never value pardon unless you feel repentance; and you will never taste the deepest draught of repentance until you know that you are pardoned. It may seem a strange thing, but so it is—the bitterness of repentance and the sweetness of pardon blend in the flavor of every gracious life, and make up an incomparable happiness. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness These two covenant gifts are the mutual assurance of each other. If I know that I repent, I know that I am forgiven. How am I to know that 98I am forgiven except I know also that I am turned from my former sinful course? To be a believer is to be a penitent. Faith and repentance are but two spokes in the same wheel, two handles of the same plough. Repentance has been well described as a heart broken for sin, and from sin; and it may equally well be spoken of as turning and returning. It is a change of mind of the most thorough and radical sort, and it is attended with sorrow for the past, and a resolve of amendment in the future. 1. is to leave 2. sins we loved before; 3. show that we in earnest grieve, 4. doing so no more. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness Do not regard your repentance as the cause of your remission, but as the companion of it. Do not expect to be able to repent until you see the grace of our Lord Jesus, and His readiness to blot out your sin. Keep these blessed things in their places, and view them in their relation to each other. They are the Jachin and Boaz of a saving experience; I mean that they are comparable to Solomon’s two great pillars which stood in the forefront 99of the house of the Lord, and formed a majestic entrance to the holy place. No man comes to God aright except he passes between the pillars of repentance and remission. Upon your heart the rainbow of covenant grace has been displayed in all its beauty when the tear-drops of repentance have been shone upon by the light of full forgiveness. Repentance of sin and faith in divine pardon are the warp and woof of the fabric of real conversion. By these tokens shall you know an Israelite indeed. ________________________________________ Repentance Must Go with Forgiveness To come back to the Scripture upon which we are meditating: both forgiveness and repentance flow from the same source, and are given by the same Saviour. The Lord Jesus in His glory bestows both upon the same persons. You are neither to find the remission nor the repentance elsewhere. Jesus has both ready, and He is prepared to bestow them now, and to bestow them most freely on all who will accept them at His hands. Let it never be forgotten that Jesus gives all that is needful for our salvation. It is highly important that all seekers after mercy should remember this. Faith is as much the gift of God as is the Saviour upon whom that faith relies. Repentance of sin is as truly the work of grace as the making of an atonement by which sin is blotted out. Salvation, from first to last, is of grace alone. You will not misunderstand me. It is not the Holy Spirit who repents. He has never done anything for which He should repent. If He could repent, it would not meet the case; we must ourselves repent of our own sin, or we are not saved 100from its power. It is not the Lord Jesus Christ who repents. What should He repent of? We ourselves repent with the full consent of every faculty of our mind. The will, the affections, the emotions, all work together most heartily in the blessed act of repentance for sin; and yet at the back of all that is our personal act, there is a secret holy influence which melts the heart, gives contrition, and produces a complete change. The Spirit of God enlightens us to see what sin is, and thus makes it loathsome in our eyes. The Spirit of God also turns us toward holiness, makes us heartily to appreciate, love, and desire it, and thus gives us the impetus by which we are led onward from stage to stage of sanctification. The Spirit of God works in us to will and to do according to God’s good pleasure. To that good Spirit let us submit ourselves at once, that He may lead us to Jesus, who will freely give us the double benediction of repentance and remission, according to the riches of His grace. ________________________________________ How Repentance is Given When Jesus was exalted on high, the Spirit of God was poured out to work in us all needful graces. The Holy Ghost creates repentance in us by supernaturally renewing our nature, and taking away the heart of stone out of our flesh. Oh, sit not down straining those eyes of yours to fetch out impossible tears! Repentance comes not from unwilling nature, but from free and sovereign grace. Get not to your chamber to smite your breast in order to fetch from a heart of stone feelings which are not there. But go to Calvary and see how Jesus died. Look upward to the hills whence comes your help. The Holy Ghost has come on purpose that He may overshadow men’s spirits and breed repentance within them, even as once He brooded over chaos and brought forth order. Breathe your prayer to Him, “Blessed Spirit, dwell with me. Make me tender and lowly of heart, that I may hate sin and unfeignedly repent of it.” He will hear your cry and answer you. (Message edited by michaelsavedbygrace on July 21, 2010) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1165 Registered: 3-2009 |
It seems to me that all those Bible verses refer to a sinner before repentance, before being born again. Hec | ||
| Michaelsavedbygrace Registered user Username: Michaelsavedbygrace Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2010 |
These messages are sent to the 7 churches, not the world Rev 2:5 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and REPENT, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou REPENT. Rev 2:16 16 REPENT; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev 2:21 21 And I gave her space to REPENT of her fornication; and she REPENTED not. Rev 2:22 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they REPENT of their deeds. Rev 3:3 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev 3:19 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11449 Registered: 12-2003  |
Hec, most of those quotes above are directed to the unbelieving. The texts directed to the churches, by the way, is directed toward bodies of believers. In fact, all of those churches have ceased to exist. That cessation does not mean there weren't individuals in them who were saved, but the churches lost their influence and life. As our pastor said of the mainline churches some months ago—he believes that because they have taken a position of unbelief concerning the word of God, no longer believing it is the inerrant word and making corporate decision that reflect their disbelief, God is removing those church's candlesticks. Membership is dwindling, and the power of gospel preaching is missing. Colleen | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 715 Registered: 10-2006 |
Repentance is turning from sin. Jesus died to save us from our sin. Sin caused animals to have to be sacrificed and Jesus, our perfect lamb to die. When we come to Jesus, we acknowledge our sin - that it hurts everyone, God and our relationships. Sin is a serious thing. When we come to Jesus, we make a decision to turn from sin (that's what repentance is). If we continue to live in sin intentionally, we are kind of mocking the horrible thing that caused Jesus to give His life. Sin is what brought us into Satan's domain and separated us from God. Part of the Holy Spirit's role in our life is to convict us of sin. What do you think we are to do once we are convicted? I believe repentance is the thing that pleases the Lord. Without repentance, we're saying our sin isn't a big deal. We're saying (or thinking) our relationships with God and people don't matter. Yes, I sin - more than I want. I don't want to ever do it again. Therefore, I repent when I become aware of sin. I make restitution whenever possible. I don't do it because of anything other than love for my Lord and a desire to love His people as we are commanded to do. I am NOT bouncing in and out of salvation. I am safe positionally in Jesus. I don't want to sin again. It's not legalism. It's wanting to live in a way that people can see Jesus in me and be drawn to Him. It's wanting to live according to how the Bible says our lives as believers should be. As Adventists, we were "legalismed out." I may have just invented a new word, but couldn't think of anything else that fit. I think we better be careful to not throw the baby out with the bath water. We are NOT under the law. We are to live as people who have chosen the teachings of Jesus. That's what a disciple is. When I choose to sin (or simply fall) I repent because that does not characterize who I choose to be. Repentance is not a salvation thing for me, but a love for my Savior and Redeemer thing. Does that make sense? Joyfulheart | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11452 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Joyfulheart. It does. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1167 Registered: 3-2009 |
If God is not counting man's trespasses, and we were forgiven at the cross, what is the purpose of confession of sins for the believer? Hec | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1726 Registered: 6-2006  |
Well for one, it's the way Jesus taught us to pray ~ Matthew 6:9-13 (New International Version) 9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us today our daily bread. 12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' Don't know if that was a rhetorical question Hec, but there you go. Leigh Anne | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11453 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, confession doesn't have to mean "for justification". When we are alive in Christ, with the Holy Spirit in us and Christ's blood covering us, all our sin is forgiven. At the same time, if we sin in this body, as Paul describes in Romans 6, He will convict us of that sin. Romans 8:12-13 also teaches us that we must learn, by the Spirit, to put to death the deeds of the flesh. If we refuse to respond to the Holy Spirit's convictions, we reserve the "right" to stay in control of that corner of our life instead of surrendering it to the Lord Jesus. Confession is about interacting with the Lord Jesus. It's very similar to why we apologize to our spouses when we offend them. We need to step back from our self-defense and control and allow God's will to teach us and to soften our hearts. Confession, as a believer, is about learning to live by the Spirit and surrendering our rights and our hurts to Him, allowing Him to be all we need. When we make a practice of confession when the Holy Spirit convicts us, we gain new freedom, new openness, and less "victim" mentality. It's about becoming mature. Paul's prayer in Philippians 1:9-11 describes this maturity that comes from admission of culpability and surrender of our self-protection and control:
This maturity and growth in love can only occur when we admit when we are wrong and listen to the Holy Spirit's prompting. Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11454 Registered: 12-2003 |
Didn't see you there, Leigh Anne--good answer! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1727 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hey Michael, I appreciate your enthusiasm, as well as your newfound discovery of EGW's false prophesies. It's like being a brand new Christian (or finding out you're about to become a parent) - you just want to share your wonderful news with everyone. I do have a question though ~ With your sermons, are you directing them to us (the members of the forum) or are you preaching to any lurkers who happen upon our site? I'm just curious. Usually the forum is made up of people who are simply looking for a support network, as it's such a huge transition from SDAism into mainstream Christianity. I came in several years ago because I was so fed up with being confused about my SDA family I married into. This forum has been such an incredible comfort to me, answering my questions, finding people who understand me as well as meeting some really wonderful friends. Have you checked out CARM.com? That's a place where you can post sermons like yours to actual SDA apologists. I'm kinda thinking it might be more to your speed. Don't get me wrong, it's great to have you here, but I'd also like to see what you can do with some of the SDA diehards over at CARM. I think we'd all like to get to know you a little better on the personal end. It's always good to make friends first. Leigh Anne | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1728 Registered: 6-2006 |
Thank's Colleen! Nice to see you tonight. me | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1169 Registered: 3-2009 |
Maybe I'm confusing the meaning of confession. I'm defining it as asking for forgiveness. Why should I ask for forgiveness of a sin which has already been forgiven? If we take confession to mean repentance, as in being sorry for what my sin caused and turning away from it, then that's something else. Hec | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 839 Registered: 12-2007 |
I agree that repentance is important. I believe we are saved through Faith, but being human there will always be times while we are still here on this earth that we will sin. To me, repentance is apologizing to God for the times I sin even when I do not intend to. I know that even though I am "saved" I need to apologize to God as I am sure my sins hurt him, and I do not want to hurt my Savior. I also apologize to my husband, or my children, friends, etc if I realize I have said or done something to hurt them... not because I feel I will lose my relationship with them, but because I love them and it hurts ME to think that I may have hurt THEM. Kinda the same thing I think. Francie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11456 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, confession means admitting what is true. We confess Christ when we know Him; we confess our secrets to our confidant; we confess our wrong-doing to those we hurt. It's a way of admitting and owning what is actually true. If we don't admit we have done wrong, even after we are born again, we hold back a little walled-off section of our personality or consciousness and refuse to admit, even to ourself, what the truth is. God cannot resolve and heal the broken places in our hearts when we refuse to admit they are broken. This refusal doesn't mean that we aren't saved, covered by Jesus' blood and hidden with Christ in God. But it will mean that we remain brittle people, immature in some ways, and stubborn about growing spiritually. Because we are born again, however, the Holy Spirit won't stop bringing us face-to-face with our sin and denial. He keeps allowing us to trip over the same unacknowledged wound or sin until we surrender to Him, admit we have to let it go, that we need Him to fill that place in our heart, and ask forgiveness from those we have wronged. I find that my confession to God in these sorts of circumstances often ends up being my repenting for not representing Him and acknowledging Him as I know He is. It's always about surrender in my experience. I have to be willing to know how I am wrong, and then I can repent and ask God to fill that place in me. This is all part of the process of sanctification that occurs AFTER we are saved. It is not part of becoming saved; it is entirely the fruit of salvation, of the Holy Spirit residing in us. Colleen | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 720 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hec, to me confessing sin is naming it and telling God you know what it is specifically that you did wrong so you can turn from it. God already knows what you did. Confessing isn't so He will know. Its for you. One of the things I found people in my former SDA church did was routinely ask for forgiveness of anything they had done wrong. Confessing is different than that. In my classroom, my sweethearts sometimes make mistakes. They hurt each other or knock down another child's blocks. Often, after I've processed the incident, one of the kids will say "sorry!" in a harsh way just to say it. I usually say at that point something like "What is it that you are sorry for?" I then say look at __'s face. He's sad. Tell him what you are going to do now and next time." My goal is that the child will name specifically what he did, tell the other child what he will do to help fix the problem and finally say he will not do that specific thing again. I think that's what confession is: naming the sin so you know what it is and can repent (not do it again). Naming kind of forces us to examine what we've done wrong, how to make it right and prevent ourselves from doing it again. Hope that helps! Joyfulheart | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8352 Registered: 3-2004  |
Confession not only is telling someone what I did and am sorry for it, it also means I want to change. Only God can change me, but I have to own whatever that is. If I do not own it, how can God change me??? Diana l | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 219 Registered: 6-2008 |
One way to look at confession is to see it as being one corner of a triangle, the three angles being Self-Defense, Ignoring the Offense (pretense="It doesn't matter to me, so it shouldn't matter to you!"), and Confession (acknowledgement of and apology for the offense). Only confession can bring true reconciliation. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1170 Registered: 3-2009 |
I guess where I'm coming from is the SDA believe that you are saved, you sin, you are unsaved, you confess, you are saved again, you sin, you are unsaved and on and on. Every time you sin you have to confess to be saved again. If there is one unconfessed sin when your time for the IJ comes, you will fry. If you were forgiven at the cross and Jesus is not imputing your sins, then you never become unsaved. I agree with confession as a means to fix a relationship, but not necessarily for forgiveness of sins that are already forgiven. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11462 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, you are right that it's not about losing salvation. We are secure because we are born of the Spirit. Christians confess because they know Jesus' voice, and they experience His conviction when they sin. One distinction that helps me is this: guilt is removed at the cross. Before a person is saved, they legitimately OUGHT to experience a sense of guilt and hopelessness. After they are saved, the guilt is gone. If they sin, the indwelling Spirit CONVICTS them. Conviction is a very different thing from guilt. In Jesus, our guilt is gone. Conviction effects His discipline in our lives. Colleen | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 137 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hec, I agree with what you said in the above post. As an SDA, it was "saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved" every day. Colleen, what you said about conviction being different than guilt is what I have understood since leaving SDA. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2199 Registered: 5-2007  |
Anyone who thinks you can be saved, fall away and then repeatedly be 're-saved' had better understand Hebrews Chapter Six, especially these verses:
Personally, I consider this a strong ‘assurance of salvation’ passage simply because we are always called to repent of our sins. In any case, the one thing made clear here is that Jesus Christ will never go back upon the cross. Therefore, if you think you can ‘fall away’ there is no atonement left for you. Any Adventist who really understands their bible and, at the same time, anchors their salvation on Adventist theology, must then also conclude they are headed for the Lake of Fire. Praise God we have Romans Chapter Eight and read where nothing can separate us who truly love God from the love of God. Fearless Phil | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 225 Registered: 6-2008 |
Hec, As an SDA, I don't EVER remember anything like "saved, unsaved, saved, unsaved ..." "Salvation" as I understood it was a future event, when we would be taken from (saved) from this earth to live with God. The term "saved" was never used the same way most Protestants use it. We never said "So-and-so used to be an atheist before he got saved." Or, "Mr. Jones took Bible studies and then he got saved." The term we used was "converted," which doesn't quite mean the same as "saved" to an SDA. And never once did I EVER hear anyone say they had to be "re-converted" every time they sinned, or that they sinned, asked forgiveness and got reconverted. I was NEVER taught that every time I sinned God dumped me!!! I was still His child, but when I sinned, He wanted me to express regret for my wrongdoing and recognize His power to pardon and not hold it against me. The way I learned it was that when we sin, we must recognize it as sin, admit it, make restitution if the sin is against another, and ask forgiveness (not "beg" forgiveness!) from God to be reconciled with Him. Not to confess (acknowledge) sin is to harbor it, or "regard iniquity" in the heart, as David expressed it. (Ps. 67:18) "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me." Refusing to acknowledge one's sin is a defensive act that blocks God's mercy! In addition, if we refuse to forgive others, God will not forgive us! (Matt 6:15.) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8363 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yenc, maybe that is not the way it was verbalized in school, but that it was the way I understood it also. You know how kids are. Now I call it "on and off salvation"!! Diana L | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2009 |
Yenc, you're right. SDAs don't use the term "saved". However, the concept is still there. Even the IJ doctrine states that if you have sins that are not confessed you will not pass the IJ. So when you sin you are not "saved" until you confess, then you can pass the IJ (be saved again). Then you sin again and there goes the cycle. Hec | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1087 Registered: 10-2008 |
Adventists are clearly taught to never say they are "saved". (EGW has a quote in regards to this). Their salvation is never completely a done deal. I am reminded of a couple of things in scripture that clearly shows God's incredible mercy to us. (Rom. 8:5; Rom. 8:19; 1 Tim. 1:15-17) God's mercy is not dependent on me or something I "do" such as confess. Catholicism has a belief that you must confess to the priest to be free from sin - and thus "saved". Confession (meaning admitting my guilt) does not "save" me ... it heals me. Healing is not "salvation". Repentance is not salvation. Before everyone jumps on that please hear me out. While I was a sinner - Christ died. Saved me. I just did a search of the word confess in the New Testament ... do you realize that that word "confess" is always - except in two texts related to confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior. That is different than the idea of "confess" admit/own my individual wrong doing. The two texts which were a little different from "confessing" Jesus as Lord and Savior were James 1:5 and 1 John 1:9 (but I believe 1 John 1:9 is referring to confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior). Somehow I have had this mentality ... what came first - repentance or salvation. Wrong mentality ... Salvation is receiving Jesus (who is God Almighty, died for my sin, and rose again after three days) alone to save me. Receiving Him as Savior and Lord. God still "hears us" even when we haven't "confessed" (admitted an evil wrong doing) to Him. Unfortunately, Evil Ellen has written that if we don't "confess" (admitting evil wrong doing) God can't hear us ... I don't find that anywhere in scripture - correct me please by quoting scripture. One other thought I have and this takes some reading ... You might want to read this story from scripture ... 2 Chron. 18:1-34; 2 Chron. 19:1-11) It is a weird story, but pay close attention to verses 18: 31-32. [Also, 1 Chron. 5: 20 ... {notice this is 1 Chron.} identifies what cries out to the Lord means ... trusting in God to save.] Clearly Jehosaphat didn't "confess" his stupidity and going against the prophet of the Lord, but God saved Him when He "cried out" - trusted God. I imagine it was a "AHHHHH, GOD", yell - but we are not told - so let's not assume. You know I'm struck by how in Adventism I was taught that everything related to salvation. Confession and God's mercy were so twisted in Adventism that it takes years to untwist ... sorry, just a fact ... and I'm still untwisting ... each and every day. My only hope is to be in scripture daily asking God to teach me Himself. I can no longer respond with "I think" as an answer for a spiritual issue ... I need to go to scripture for my reality and Who God is. And then it can't be scripture with Ellen eyes ... and so I rely on the Holy Spirit. Sorry, for the long-windedness. | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 138 Registered: 3-2009 |
It's true, as SDA, the word used was "converted" rather than saved. But, as Hec said above, the concept was still there. I had actually forgotten about "being converted"! Saved is a much more precious word now, saying "converted" seems foreign. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 509 Registered: 3-2009 |
I've recently come to the same realization. After being born again, I don't think there's Biblical evidence to support the idea that God expects us to name our individual sins before Him. However, James says this is very healthy to do among fellow believers. Either Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient once for all, or it is not. We don't keep it or add to it by groveling before Him with all our baggage, begging Him to erase it from the records. Rather, we confess to one another our individual sins for healing and restoration. In God's eyes, we're new creatures. We still struggle against the flesh, but that's not our identity anymore. Paul even said that it's as if his sinful desires came from outside of him. Unfortunately, Christians (not just SDAs) constantly bring up this idea that we have to repent and ask forgiveness of individual sins. Usually the context is not about keeping salvation, thank goodness; but, to be in better standing w/ God somehow. For example, I've heard my pastor (not SDA) say before communion like, "Search your heart and find any unconfessed sins before you partake." (As a side note, if you go back to the context where Paul talks about taking communion in an unworthy manner, it has nothing to do with unconfessed sin somehow negating communion. Rather, it seems he was dealing w/ folks who were having too much to drink at communion and thus disrupting its significance). Also, I'm a bit weary of alter calls to 'rededicate' your life to Jesus. The ideas of confessing every sin (after you're born again), and constantly recommitting, are leftovers from the 2nd Great Awakening, revivalistic period, to my knowledge. Here's an article that explains it that I think I've posted on here before: http://www.mtio.com/articles/aissar81.htm Charles Finney was an old, revivalistic preacher during the 2nd Great Awakening who believed, like EGW, that once you committed a sin, you ceased to be saved until you confessed it. These ideas were not just from SDA, and they persist in more or less signficance in mainline evangelicalism to the present. I believe we must combat them with the truth of God's word as much as possible. Interestingly, despite all of Charles Finney's abberant, heretical doctrines; he's still revered in the Christian world, and there's even a memorial to him in the Billy Graham center--in North Carolina, I think. It reminds me a bit of how SDAs cannot stop revering EGW, even when evidence of her unorthodoxy is brought to light. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1330 Registered: 7-2007 |
I've been meaning to write on this thread and I've finally gotten around to it. What I wanted to say is that when I was an Adventist, I felt that I needed to ask the Lord to forgive me each time in order to be saved. What I mean is; I felt my salvation went like this - saved-lost-saved-lost-saved-lost-saved-lost-saved-lost-saved. I hoped that if I ever got killed, say in a car or plane crash, etc. that I would have time to repent and "get-right-with-God." That's not Biblical. Otherwise the apostle John couldn't have told the believers that their sins "are forgiven you" (1st John 2:12). That's future sins too, obviously. John also said to "confess our sins" (1st John 1:9), but he was writing to believers whose sins were already forgiven; not unbelievers. An example I've been given, is when a child is born into a family. When he/she disobeys his/her parents later, it doesn't mean he/she is out of the family. It means the fellowship is broken until the child is disiplined/repents. The relationship remains intact. He/she is still in the family. Also the apostle Paul couldn't have said believers were sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believed, "Who is the guarantee of our inheritance" (Ephesians 1:13,14). Nor could he have written "you have been saved" (Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5) if believers weren't saved and sealed the moment they believed on Jesus for salvation. I do, however, believe that God gives free choice and if a person decides that they don't want to be a Christian anymore, that God will let them go. A person cannot "accidently" lose their salvation like someone losing their car keys or something. |
