| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6434 Registered: 9-2006  |
Scientists at NASA built a gun specifically to launch standard 4 pound dead chickens at the windshields of airliners, military jets and the space shuttle, all traveling at maximum velocity. The idea is to simulate the frequent incidents of collisions with airborne fowl to test the strength of the windshields. British engineers heard about the gun and were eager to test it on the windshields of their new high speed trains. Arrangements were made, and a gun was sent to the British engineers. When the gun was fired, the engineers stood shocked as the chicken hurled out of the barrel, crashed into the shatterproof shield, smashed it to smithereens, blasted through the control console, snapped the engineer's back-rest in two, and embedded itself in the back wall of the cabin, like an arrow shot from a bow. The horrified Brits sent NASA the disastrous results of the experiment, along with the designs of the windshield and begged the US scientists for suggestions. NASA responded with a one-line memo -- "Defrost the chicken." (True Story) I am thinking if we ever hope to get much of anywhere with our Adventist friends we have to first defrost them. They are frozen and stiff in their belief of Adventism, and They are hard as nails. One way to do this might be to pray and ask God to soften their hard heart before we ever make contact, then have faith in God, in other words defrost them through prayer and faith believing. One man in the Bible said to Jesus, “I am not worthy for you to come under my roof, but send your word, and Jesus marveled at the mans faith. True faith is really hard to come by, true faith is an unwavering surety that God is going to do what we desire of him, and this is the kind of faith that pleases him. Another problem might be that we really don't desire what we are asking, we maybe are asking something we think we should desire, but in our own heart of hearts we really don't care whether we have it or not. The we expect him to just jump right too, and perform a miracle for us. The bible says Mark 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. He is not pleased with a maybe so faith. It may be that the problem we run in too is that we don’t defrost the chicken before shooting our big guns of the gospel at them. Maybe we need to ask him to prepare hearts before we get there, then believe that he will do that thing.  River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2217 Registered: 5-2007  |
 Just maybe if we use a live chicken and leave its feathers on there will be no need to defrost it. Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6435 Registered: 9-2006 |
There ain't no live chickens in Adventism, they been froze since 1844! Plus they ain't got no feathers, Ellen White picked them clean. River | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2010 |
River, Let me give you something to consider. Can you describe the most beautiful sunset you've ever experienced to a person who has been blind from birth? With this friend that I was talking to who has gotten involved with the SDA church. I pointed out to him that we worship God in spirit and in truth and referenced to John chapter 4 where Jesus was talking to the woman at the well, and that there would soon be a day that they (her and us) wouldn't have to go to Jerusalem to worship nor on that mountain she was referring to. You want to know what the guy (my friend) said? His comment was, "that would mean we can worship God any day of the week!" (i.e. worshiping God in spirit and in truth) I thought to myself, DUH!!!! Wouldn't that be great if we didn't just have to worship Him on Saturday! You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Not even if it's living water. ;) Do they really understand the spiritual aspect in Scriptures? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6436 Registered: 9-2006 |
No, they don't understand spiritual aspect of scripture, you have to be born again to do that. However, nothing is impossible with God, he can not only lead a horse to water, he can make the horse speak English. What is wrong with us is that we expect to have drive through prayer answered. Have faith in God. River | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2010  |
River, Thanx so much for your post. I consider it as counsel to something I was just praying about this morning. I am dialoguing with an Adventist male (Matt) over on AllExperts.com and just last night I told him that I believe I need to back off because we cannot even agree on basic issues. He wants to use inferences and 'logic' to explain what the Scriptures don't say. He is adamant that the Ten Commandments applied to Adam and Eve and that they have ALWAYS been but were written on tablets at Sinai. He says the week of creation was God's week and He rested to set an example for Adam and Eve for them to begin keeping it the second week..... No Bible text I share with him convinces him otherwise. I have decided to back away and follow your suggestion to ask the Holy Spirit to soften his heart and be open to truth. Now to join in on the fun: SDA's are over-stuffed frozen chickens resisting the fire of the Holy Spirit. Pat | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 406 Registered: 4-2007 |
"Can you describe the most beautiful sunset you've ever experienced to a person who has been blind from birth?" Where on earth did you meet my 2nd gen SDA wife? Her mind set has been rigidly molded by Adventist theology and is seems incapable of 'seeing' alternatives. Example: Current SDA Sabbath school lessons which she is teaching. Romans 3:28 (NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. She has to admit the 'Law' that Paul is talking about is the five books of Moses which includes the 10C She gets around this by using the fact that the 10 Cs were given by God at Sinai therefore, by some mental gymnastics, this excludes the 10C from the 'Law' that Paul was referring to. She immediately then brought up (Ta Da!!) the SABBATH. By the way, we've had numerous similar discussions during the past four years, to no avail. My desire is that she will one day see the beauty I now see, A sinner saved by our sovereign God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Only God can make the blind see. John | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 45 Registered: 5-2009 |
John, I like to slogan: Get off his(her) back, get out of the way, get on with Your life. !! <smile> I've had to learn to 'let go & let God' with my husband - first over relationship issues, next over religion. When the break throughs come I will KNOW that God has done it. There was a small but major one this spring relating to Daniel 8 & 9 which shocked me. He even said 'I may have been wrong. The context is clear.' I just keep praying & thanking God for keeping him in the Word, reading the bible. If I keep trying to share things with him he will only feel badgered & defensive - & simply seek to win an argument. I wonder why so many of us feel that praying is wimpy & last resort? J9 | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 407 Registered: 4-2007 |
Lest you think I'm confrontational, I'm not! After four years of observing the heated debates on CARM I'm well aware of the defensive posture taken when 'threatened', it is counter productive. Most of our conversations re theology she has initiated (probably in an attempt to get me to see the error of my ways). John | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2010 |
Hi John, This is in reference to your comments that start off with: "Where on earth did you meet my 2nd gen SDA wife?" in relation to: "Can you describe the most beautiful sunset you've ever experienced to a person who has been blind from birth?" The truth of the matter is, the Lord showed me that while speaking with atheists as He did many other questions and comments. Picture it though, well, I take that back, you really don't have to do you? But isn't it funny how they can only see from the "Law" perspective and not from the Grace perspective? | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 408 Registered: 4-2007 |
...they can only see from the "Law" perspective and not from the Grace perspective? That sums it up! To them it's a chasm they refuse to even consider crossing. John | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 37 Registered: 7-2010 |
You know John, I was watching a video that my friend gave me (actually there were 13 but I didn't watch all of them). Anyway, the speaker mentioned how he focused on every word of the Scripture, not just part of it like some people do. I wonder how he missed this ":" in the next two verses? Mark 2:27-28 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. That is an indication of a continuation of the thought doesn't it? Verse 28 is just a continuation of the sentence in Verse 27. It's not a whole other sentence/thought. The emphasis created from the colon is on the fact that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, and He said "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 409 Registered: 4-2007 |
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: And the question should be...made for who? Exo 31:16 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.' Exo 31:17 "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Lev 24:8 "Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the LORD continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel. Deu 5:15 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day. I am not an Israelite!! Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Which tells me that God is sovereign, not a day. The Adventists have elevated the 'when' to such a lofty height that the 'who' they claim to worship is subject to the 'when'. John | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2010 |
"The Adventists have elevated the 'when' to such a lofty height that the 'who' they claim to worship is subject to the 'when'." You hit the nail on the head right there! | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 857 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yea, but some SDA's say that when it says "Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." it just SHOWS that the Sabbath is "The Lords Day". So they tweak it to try and show that people who go to church on Sunday saying it is the "Lords Day" dont realize or ignore that the "Sabbath " is really the Lords day. They refuse to admit that the Sabbath as a perpetual "sign" was given ONLY to the Israelites as they claim to be "Spiritual Israel" I am thinking it is impossible to reason with a dyed in the wool SDA unless they are willing to let the Holy Spirit show them truth... they have that "veil" over their eyes so tight because they think THEY are the only ones with real "truth". It is really very sad. Now that I am a couple of years "out" of Adventism.. it is amazing to me to see what the Bible really says when taken as it reads instead of how it is interpreted by their "Spirit of Prophecy" EGW. She had a "spirit" alright, but it certainly was NOT from God. I was so blind, and now that the veil is gone, it is so clear and hurts so much to see those we love who are still behind that veil of darkness and are quite content being there because they think that WE are the ones who are deceived. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1327 Registered: 7-2007 |
River; I was just like that frozen chicken! It took God's using someone to fast and pray; as well as several direct miracles by Himself, to bring me into the realization that the SDA church was false! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 464 Registered: 5-2009 |
River, thank you for that encouragement and teaching--you're right--we need to pray first. Fasting really is such a foreign concept, but I understand a little of it. Not sure if it's mainly to show God we are serious or to get the idea of food out of our minds, but Jesus did talk about the demon that wouldn't come out except by prayer and fasting. So, even though I don't understand it perfectly, we must obey Him. After 3 + weeks with husband's devout sda daughter and son and families, I hear you loud and clear! I have to defrost first. (This may take a little repetition to get thru my cranium, because as devout sdas we never had to defrost vege-meats! Defrosting is a new concept! ) They (his kids) would not consider even visiting church or Bible study with us, not even once. I understand it because I remember what I used to think & what they must be thinking of us (off the deep end/deceived/in Babylon). When I saw the Clear Word--well thumbed--sitting on my step-daughter's nightstand I was sick to my stomach. She had, a month or so ago told her Dad she was ready to start studying and we were overjoyed! Her 'studying', though, consisted of reading EGW's books and listing what she did/did not agree with. While here they all agreed to rent jet skiis on Sabbath (and other secular stuff)and spend several hours riding them on the lake. It was OK, because it was 'out in nature'. So, you are right River. Timely advice. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6437 Registered: 9-2006 |
Nowisee, I am going to try to educate you on fasting, and the reason for it. We are, in effect, spiritual beings in a body of flesh, flesh likes to do its on thing, so the spirit must war against the flesh. When a persons fasts, the spirit part of us gets the upper hand, because the flesh is denied lee way, God is spirit and those that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. You people say that all the time, but do you know what it means? That is the question. It is a no brainer that the bible plainly tells us this. Theres no way to skirt around Jesus words in that respect, and make it mean something else, his words are just too plain to work it some other way. In spirit, small s, that means your spirit communicating with his Spirit. Proper prayer is worship, our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, worship, give us this day our daily bread, prayer. Like I said the flesh wants to war against the spirit, your spirit and his. So one way to start separating the flesh out,is to fast, deny it what it demands of you, then you will be able to focus your attention to prayer. You have to let the world go by for a time, so when you fast, it should be a time of fasting, nothing else. You just do the minimum work around the house. Your fasting unto God, that means you keep your mind on God, not doing your thing. Now then...there are sometimes medical reasons why a person should not attempt to fast accept maybe one meal, such as a diabetic, or whatever. But I invite anyone to try this, on Sunday morning or when you go to bible study or some such. Fast the meal before you go, see the difference. Test me on this, don't just take my word for it. (nobody does anyhow) Just get up Sunday morning, don't eat, just drink water, and begin to be in a prayerful attitude, fall out of bed, spend some time just telling God low much you love him, don't tell him your fasting, he already knows it. Don't announce it to the world, this is between the your father and you. Spend some time on your knees, forget the laundry, the dishes, cooking, cleaning, picking your nose, brushing you hair, fiddling with your finger nails...all that, and spend some times on your knees, or if your knees are like mine, sit up, but spend time with God, deny the world, deny the gut. Remember, its not to get God to do something for you, its to separate yourself unto God. Spend time quietly before God, shut the door on your room and lock it, ask your family to not bother you for awhile if you have anyone in your house. Let you prayer request be made known to God, then be still. Wait before him, praising him. Now I don't suppose I'm getting anywhere with all this, but me, I like to try anyhow, I'm just a stubborn old coot who likes to see people blessed by God in their lives. River Asurprise, I'm glad you had someone who knew how to fast, why to fast, and would take their time to care for you with a pure heart. I know exactly what you mean, and I know you are telling the truth. I know the how and the why of it. Thank God we got people who cares. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11501 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, thank you. Colleen | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 739 Registered: 7-2004 |
River, there is no one who can say things like you do! I like how practical you are and how you tell it like it is. Thank you for telling us what to leave out and how to do it! I've tried the fasting before, but haven't committed to the full devotion that you are saying, and I want to try it!! (although right at the moment I am having my morning coffee, so I will have to try it at a different time) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1198 Registered: 3-2009 |
I'm in trouble. River says:
My problem is that when I fast, I cannot keep my mind on prayer but on food. Hec | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2474 Registered: 8-2004  |
Hec, Don't worry. When God wants you to fast, He will also give you the ability. He's really good that way! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1739 Registered: 6-2006  |
River, I think you've been watching Mythbusters! I saw an episode where Adam and Jaime shot frozen chickens at airplane windshields! (Yes, I am a geek). Come to think of it, Mythbusters could devote a whole season to EGW... Leigh Anne | ||
| Sunnimoreno Registered user Username: Sunnimoreno Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2008 |
nice suggestion Leigh... let them do the "amalgamation of men and beast" first. lol | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 254 Registered: 6-2008 |
That "hard-hearted chicken" just reminded me of a phrase I used to hear used in reference to really sober and joyless SDAs: they were half-jokingly called the "Frozen Chosen"! How's that for a metaphor coming full circle?! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6443 Registered: 9-2006 |
Oh come now Leigh Anne, you a geek? | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 465 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks, River, for taking me seriously and giving practical advice! I don't think you're a S.O.C., but a Nice O.C.! I can say the 'old' part cause I'm probably older than you! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6444 Registered: 9-2006 |
Nowisee, I guess we have become 'consumer Christians'. Not sure what to accredit that too, perhaps a world we have to live in that is consumer oriented. A fast unto God is little understood or mentioned in todays climate. You can read in the book of Isiah what a fast unto the Lord is, and it is carried on in the book of Acts. The people do not understand the blessing involved in a fast unto the Lord mixed with a time of intense prayer. We want God to bless our lives, yet we do not know how to obtain his blessing on our lives. We consume great amounts of goods, yet we don't consume Gods blessing on our lives. Or we don't know that there is a blessing to be found besides salvation. Only a few have ventured into the spiritual realm that has nothing at all to do with this flesh which is just our house. River | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you so much River for your sharing. J9 |
