| Author | Message | ||
| Michaelsavedbygrace Registered user Username: Michaelsavedbygrace Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2010 |
Adventist are conditioned to read 1 John 3:4 in the following way 1 John 3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the TEN COMMANDMENTS: for sin is the transgression of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. It will come as a surprise to some, just as it did for me, that the Greek does not support this in the slightest. I know this post will "sound all Greek to me." I apologize for that but promise to keep it brief and as simple as possible. The word "law" in the King James Version of 1 John 3:4 is NOT the word law at all. It is actually the word "Iniquity." It is translated as "iniquity" 12 times and "unrighteousness" 1 time. The only other two times it is found in all the scripture is 1 John 3:4. "God's Word" (a modern translation) has the best rendering of the Greek that I have found. 1 John 3:4 (GW) 4 Those who live sinful lives are disobeying God. Sin is disobedience. Matthew 5:17, 19 applies the two common Greek words found throughout scripture, which are "law" (nomos) v. 17 and "commandment" (entolç) v. 19. (Please see my post on Matthew 5:17-19) Nomos is translated law 197 times (it is not translated as any thing else other than "law") Entolç is translated commandment 69 times (it is translated as "precept" 2 times). NEITHER "NOMOS" NOR "ENTOLç" ARE USED IN 1 JOHN 3:4 When the Adventist use 1 John 3:4 and teach that this verse says, "for sin is the transgression of the TEN COMMANDMENTS," they are in fact twisting the scripture making it say something it does not say. Another proof text Adventist use, which does not prove anything at all. (Message edited by michaelsavedbygrace on July 20, 2010) | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2009 |
thanks for your post, Michael. I have been discussing this very verse with one of my Adventist sisters. I will use this info. And by the way, welcome to the forum. I don't get on here too much anymore. Just checked it out to see what was going on and found a lot of new people! This forum has helped me in many ways. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2010 |
Michael, what struck me as interesting is how you started this thread off. Adventist are conditioned to read 1 John 3:4 in the following way That's a profound statement in itself and leans toward the same teaching method as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have stressed on more than one occasion with my friend, "You really need to study on your own." Meaning read the chapter and meditate on it (think deeply about it is all I'm saying with the word "meditate" all day or all week if need be), and let Him reveal to you what it's saying. If we use Scripture to prove our point, then we are always going to manipulate it to our point of view. But if we base our point of view "ON" Scripture then we are lining ourselves up with Him, instead of lining Him up with us. Does that make sense? Here's the thing though. The Absolute Truth is not swayed by my point of view or yours, it remains the Truth. We either change our point of view or reject the Truth. Now consider this, John 3:15-21 and John 14:6 He is the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by Him. We either accept Him or reject Him, but He's given "us" the choice. | ||
| Michaelsavedbygrace Registered user Username: Michaelsavedbygrace Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2010 |
Amen! What is Truth? "Truth is not what I believe. Truth is not what I know. Truth is fact. I may not believe it. I may not know it. That does not change it. It is there nevertheless, waiting to be discovered and believed. Truth does not depend on the unsettled and changing opinions of men. It was truth before it was believed. It will remain truth whether it is believed or not." Carlyle B. Haynes | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2010 |
Amen! The immortal words of Pontius Pilate "What is truth?" | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11428 Registered: 12-2003  |
Very good point, Dljc. Truth IS, whether I believe it or know it or not. We simply cannot afford to choose to be in denial. Adventists (as well as other people!) have a tendency, when they sense something is "off" about their beliefs, to pass it off saying, "Brighter minds than mine have grappled with this, so I won't confuse myself by trying to figure it out." God confronts us with Himself, in whom is absolute Truth. When we deflect His appeal to our beliefs, we harden ourselves into deception. Colleen | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 200 Registered: 6-2008 |
Reminds me of the wry jest, "My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts!" | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 447 Registered: 5-2009 |
Dljc, re your post # 12 & 'conditioning', I can tell you the word 'brainwashing' came to mind as I quit reading the Bible through the interpretations of EGW. It was weird but real. And I literally, in black and white, saw words in my Bible I hadn't seen before and I had been in (sda) churches, bible classes and schools my whole life, as my parents and grandparents were. | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 136 Registered: 3-2009 |
Nowisee, I was the same way in reading words & verses in the Bible that I had never seen before. I guess a better way to put it is that I read the words but I did not (could not) understand what it was saying because of the veil. Yes brainwashing is an excellent word to describe the way we were indoctrinated in the Adventist church. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11439 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yup. Exactly the same experience for me as well, Nowisee and Believer247! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8348 Registered: 3-2004  |
My experience also. When I was challenged to read the NT in December 2003 with nothing else I was so surprised at what I read throughout the NT. I told myself many times, "I know I have read this sometime in my sda schooling, but it never said this to me". Thank you awesome God for that challenge from the sda minister. And thank you for the opportunity to tell him thank you. Diana L |
