| Author | Message | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2009 |
I would love your input on this... In what ways are children indoctrinated with the beliefs/attitudes about the Sabbath? Someone here mentioned that in SDA schools, they let out at 12 and everything revolves around Sabbath preparation, etc. I am looking for examples like that as well as obvious things like this: A SS lesson on Sabbath at creation: http://www.gracelink.net/site/1/Lessons/Kindergarten/2008/Q1/STUDENT/03.pdf And songs that you would sing in SS. Someone yesterday mentioned to me the 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7 is for Jesus... (something like that). I guess my question, in a nutshell is. What methods (subtle or otherwise) are used to teach children the Adventist beliefs about Sabbath? | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 182 Registered: 6-2008 |
These are my memories of "growing up SDA." I am now a senior citizen, out of the church for 35 years or so, and I'm sure some things are done quite differently these days, particularly in less fanatical homes. One SDA habit is that we never called the "holy" part of the seventh day of the week anything but "Sabbath." This was a bit awkward, because "Sabbath" began at sundown on the "calendar-6th-day" (which we had to call "Friday evening" to avoid confusion with the following evening, the "calendar-7th-day" evening, "Saturday night." The time in between, however, was never referred to as "Saturday"; it was "Sabbath"! (Got that? Neither did a lot of other people!) All our offerings had to be set aside before sundown Friday; handling any money that was not tithe or offering was not allowed on Sabbath. We were acutely aware of the exact minute the sun set at the beginning of Sabbath. This information was published in the church bulletin each week, and in the paper published by the conference. All secular activities had to stop before sundown Friday. After Sabbath ended, we were allowed to to secular things, but we could not even get ready for them before sundown. We were warned to "guard the edges of the Sabbath." Most of us had "Sabbath clothes" that were reserved for Sabbath use only, and (at least in my family) we wore them all day (which helped to keep us from any running, playing, or other activities not considered appropriate). I had a pretty Sabbath Bible that I used for church; my other one was for everyday. Our story and Bible lesson papers were handed out at church, and we always eagerly looked forward to getting them. (An avid reader, I always devoured mine on Sabbath afternoon!) We were not allowed to read anything secular on Sabbath. Furthermore, we were not allowed to do any schoolwork or studying on Sabbath; oddly, at least in my own family, this included the assigments for our school Bible class, because that was considered "work"! Beginning on Sabbath afternoon, there was a small Bible lesson to be studied for each day of the week, included in the papers handed out in Sabbath School. These lessons were then discussed the following Sabbath in our Sabbath School classes. The lessons were usually on different subjects for the various age groups--Cradle Roll (birth to 3); Kindergarten (4-6); Primary (7-9); Junior (10-15); and Youth (15-18). [I may be a little off on the specific ages in each group.] In our Sabbath School classes, school-age kids were each asked how many times we had studied our lessons during that week. In one small church I belonged to, we had "potluck" nearly every Sabbath at the home of one wonderful couple who lived in the mountains. Sometimes after lunch we went for a walk (never a strenuous hike!) in the woods. We were never allowed to swim on Sabbath, even in a country lake. Kids were commonly baptized at ages 10-15, following a special Baptismal Class, usually conducted by the pastor. Jesus summed up this kind of fanatical attention to detail and its enforcement in Matthew 23:23: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith." Nobody could have said it better! | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2006 |
They indoctrinate through many children's books. My daughter recieved a book last year from her grandparents it was about 'christian missionaries in Alaska'(not christian at all, in fact) and the part that creeped me out was that the main charecter in the book would not hunt for his salmon because of sabbath, so he suffered in hunger. weird.. I don't think God would want anyone to purposely starve themself, to justify a day. I had to garbage the book after that part, it is an Alaskan series, I believe the main character was Suki or something.. It took away the sweet message of simple grace and twisted it into a fictional works=grace message for young readers  | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11413 Registered: 12-2003  |
Cloudwatcher, that link is horrifying. Not only does it overtly teach Sabbath-sacredness, but it has a very physical God sitting, petting the lion, exploring with Adam and Eve, etc. Moreover, it puts a WHOLE LOT of words and concepts into God's mouth that are not in the biblical account, such as God telling the first couple that He had a whole day to spend with them! It's really horrifying,,, Colleen | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 184 Registered: 6-2008 |
Colleen, How do you interpret Gen. 3:8? It says God was "walking" in the garden, and Adam and Eve "heard His voice," so they "hid themselves from the presence of the Lord." Wouldn't that mean they perceived God as a physical presence? | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 721 Registered: 7-2004 |
Songs? "Sabbath is a happy day, happy day, happy day, Sabbath is a happy day, I love every Saaaabath. First you like to go to church, go to church, go to church. First you like to go to church, I love every Saaaabath. There were other verses about things you did, but I don't remember the words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEg5PBxvxTs&feature=related | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 853 Registered: 2-2008  |
ooohhhh Bb... my stomach is churning. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8330 Registered: 3-2004  |
That is one I do not remember. But then God took a lot from my memory during the 20+ years I did not read the Bible and adventist literature. Thank you awesome God. Diana | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2461 Registered: 8-2004  |
another one is (sung while counting on your fingers - usually begun in cradle roll): One, two, three, four, five, six for us . . One, two, three, four, five, six for us . . One, two, three, four, five, six for us . . the seventh is for Jesus. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1144 Registered: 3-2009 |
I watched that video in Youtube. "Sabbath is a happy day". Judging for the way they were singing it didn't sound too happy to me. Reminds me of when I was a boy: "Sabbath is a happy day" (sun, hurry up and set, so I can play) "happy day", (sun, hurry up and set, so I can listen to the radio) "happy day" (sun, hurry up and set, so I can watch TV) "Sabbath is a happy day" (sun, hurry up and set so I can read my book) "I love every Sabbath" ( Ahhhh, the week is coming, happy week.) Hec Hec | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8334 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hec, You sound like me when I was a kid/teenager and was sda. Diana L | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2008 |
I can relate to much of what Yenc says. SDA kids grow up on stories of people sacrificing to keep the Sabbath, and how God takes care of them. One pastor told a story of how his family didn't have food to eat, and a deer showed up on Saturday,but the father wouldn't shoot the deer as it was Sabbath. And how impressed hewas a little boy that his dad was that faithful. It was hard ofr me hwne I was in my early 20's and looked for work for 3 years with no luck, unless I would work Saturdays. Finally found owrk, which everyone htought was ancawesome answer ot prayer. Actually, I ended up in a HORRIBLE sitation that it took me over 8 years to get out, and I'm lucky I survived. ANd, I ened up working on saturday or after sundown Fridays, but at that point, I was doing SOOOO many other wrong things, it iddi't matter. Once God got me out of that situation, many things hcanged in my life, however, I never did keep Sabbath properly, and never did pay tithe, so for a few years, i was just very puzzled why God was so clearly leading in my life, and blessing me, when I was so imperfect. There is a LOT of indoctrination on how God will bless you and take care of you for keeping Sabbath, but no one much talks about when He doesn't. It sure puzzled me, once I stopped fighting and let God lead, that I wasn't convicted about my Sabbath breaking. I still belived I should keep it, but i just couldn't do it, and I just couldn't manage to care that I wasn't. I also remember all the Sabbath songs, heck, i used them when I taught Sabbath School. I can't remember much about what I taught,though. I used soem materials from My Bible First, (it's SDA) and came up with some stuff on my own, I preferred to mostly do my own thing. SDA are/were taught that Sabbath is the best day of the week. Which,for me, it often was, as i was homeschooled, and didn't see people except on Saturday. But otherwise, no it's not. I was lucky, as a girl, I mostly got left alone to play with my friends,playing dolls was allowed, and our folks firgured that's what we were ding. What we actually were doing was cpming up with Sabbath version of our favourite games, Like "What Time is it pastor Brown" instead of Mr, wolf, and Bible tag...little boys had it tougher, as playing with cars wasn't allowed...unless you were pretending to drive to church. I remember my brother and cousins and i counting the seconds til sundown. Now when my brother and his friends were older, it was easier..they went on "nature" hikes, altho they always managed to fall in the creek...and on "nature" drives (aka 4x4ing)... I just knew, as a kid, that something bad would likely happen if I broke the Sabbath ,and it would be my fault. We has Sabbath clothes, of course...oh, and Sababath colouring books...I remember not being allowed to colour in them other days..altho I did have some that were for every day including Sabbath. There were Sabbath afternoon activity books from the ABC...special Sabbath meals...in my family it was cornmeal or millet cereal as opposed to oatmeal. Anything to set this day aside as SPECIAL. We had Sabbath games...Bible dominoes, a bird game something like Go Fish...special Sabbath music to listen to... I think indoctrinate really is the key word here, though, and the song Sabbath is happy day is an excellent example....I was born into the church, and basically forced to sing that song. You were taught that Sabbath WAS your favourite day of the week,before you were old enough to have a clue what that meant. When you are an Adventist, the ONLY correct answer to "whats your favourite day" is Sabbath. And there are at least songs abut Friday being prep day. As a kid, did I EVER hate Fridays. That day was so busy, you NEEDED a day off to recover. Thursdays were almost as bad getting ready for Friday...my mom starts on Sunday now, to be ready for Sabbath. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 722 Registered: 7-2004 |
hahah Hec, exactly!! | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 667 Registered: 11-2007 |
One song sticks in my mind because it was the little kids favorite. It's called Father Abraham. I remember leading this hundreds of times and every time was wondering what we were singing about. It had the kids swing their arms and legs, turning around and falling down. Real cool for 5 year olds but here are the words: "Father Abraham had many sons,and many sons had Father Abraham. I am one of them and so are you, so let's just praise the Lord......" Here is why I think this is a very dangerous song. Adventism teaches that they are spiritual Isreal and therefore, under the same laws and restrictions as the Isrealites. They do not make a distinction between the faith based life of Abraham and the works based life of Isreal. To be called the "sons of Abraham" has a very different meaning than adventists teach. The indoctrination starts very early. Surfy | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 117 Registered: 5-2009 |
I love your stories. I can relate to a lot of it. Some people have wondered outloud why my husband and I did not stay in Adventism (he was an SDA pastor) in order to change things from the inside. To think of the subtle and deliberate indoctrination that our kids would have been exposed to while we fought the futile battle to reform (something that needs to be uprooted and burned), sends chills down my spine. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11419 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yenc, Genesis 3:8 is figurative language, a regular part of normal literature. It is "anthropomorphising" God so we can understand that God was intimate with Adam and Eve and was literally with them and familiar and interactive with them. We cannot conclude from this passage that God has a body when the NT identifies God as something far more than mere physical reality. John 4:24 says, "God is spirit, and true worshipers must worship Him in spirit and truth." 1 Tim. 6:13-16 says,
Or consider John 1:18:
There is mystery here, again...but the Bible does not describe God as having a body but as being "spirit" whom no man can or has seen. Jesus became incarnate and assumed our physical image, not the other way around. We were created in God's image, but the essential way we are like God is not our bodies. Our spirits, our ability to think and reason...these things are in Gods image, but the fact that Jesus took on a body (Heb. 10:5) tells us that intrinsically, God is not physical. Physical reality is creation. God is outside creation and made by Him. God is spirit—and Jesus tok on the form of His own creation in order to be a sacrifice for us. Colleen | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 194 Registered: 6-2008 |
Colleen, Thanks! And I can see many, many examples in many passages where anthropomorphization is the only logical explanation for the text. e.g. "His hand is not shortened..." But then what do you do with Ex. 22? I have read the whole passage. Starting from v. 12, Moses wants God to prove that it is really God Almighty who is instructing him. It's verses 21-23 in particular that do not look at all like anthropomorphism to me! I just can't see that here. I know that "God is a Spirit..." and I believe that. I just think He has the power to appear as "material" if He so chooses! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 454 Registered: 5-2009 |
The "Sabbath is a Happy Day" youtube video gave me the creeps. Many of us were first exposed as newborns to these songs, where we not only heard them & repeated them, we acted them out. They were repetitive and, like commercials, were designed (by sincere people) to become ingrained in our minds. To be totally honest, with the exception of seeing friends & getting to dress up, Sabbath wasn't really a very happy day-- | ||
| Broniba Registered user Username: Broniba Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2010  |
Yenc, I was just remembering your post while listening to a sermon by John Piper called "Remember the Sabbath day." As the scripture (Exodux 20:8-11) was being read, I noticed that I reacted to it differently. I grew up calling the seventh day, "Sabbath" like the rest of you. Suddenly it makes sense that the verses often used to defend the seventh-day Sabbath seem to confirm the importance of the day -- there was only one day identified as Sabbath, therefore that's the day the Bible must be pointing to. This morning, I was thinking how gracious God was to give the children of Israel a pattern which included rest and how obedience to the pattern allows one time to accomplish and to rest. The day is seeming less and less important as I read and I'm so grateful to have this burden lifting from my shoulders. Praise the Lord! | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 217 Registered: 6-2008 |
Broniba. When I was a teenager in Academy (a LONG time ago!) I remember asking our Bible teacher a question he couldn't answer: Why did Hebrews 4:9 say, "There remaineth therefore a rest for the people of God."? After all, none of us questioned the current validity of the 4th Commandment, so why was this text there? The Bible teacher brushed it off, and I continued to wonder and to not understand the whole chapter until I was introduced to the provisions of the New Covenant just a few years ago! Suddenly I got it! The "Sabbath" that the Israelites were commanded to keep was no longer necessary because Jesus Himself is our Rest now! So every day we have "rest" from our struggles to overcome sin, our worries about salvation, our fear of not being "good enough"! Yes, we still have a "Sabbath" and it has nothing to do with "keeping" a day "holy"! It's ALL about the real Sabbath rest-- Holy Jesus Himself! |
