| Author | Message | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 392 Registered: 4-2007 |
Someone mentioned that 'going forward' was going back to the 70s, after reading his speech I concur. I joined the church in1972 and that's what I heard. (I can only plead insanity) Any how, here's just a few of Wilson's statements from his speech that caught my attention "As Seventh-day Adventists, we accept the Bible as the foundation for all our beliefs and see in its pages our unique prophetic identity and mission." (I'll skip adding quotation marks to the balance) We are to be a peculiar people, God’s remnant people,... “Seventh-day Adventists have been chosen by God as a peculiar people, separate from the world… He has made them His representatives and has called them to be ambassadors for Him in the last work of salvation.” The observance of the Sabbath is not only a sign of His creatorship in the beginning but will be THE sign of God’s people in the last days in contrast to those with the mark of the beast representing an attempt to keep holy a day which God has not set apart as holy. God is the Creator and is to be worshiped on His Sabbath day as a sign of our loyalty to His Word and creative power. She (Babylon) has corrupted God’s commandments and instituted another day of worship other than the seventh-day Sabbath If you worship the beast and his image you are rejecting THE one sign God has proclaimed as His test of allegiance..the seventh-day Sabbath. . Grace is the promise of God’s pardon and the provision of God’s power– justification and sanctification. You cannot separate what Christ does FOR you (justifying you daily as if you had not sinned) from what He does IN you (sanctifying you daily as you submit to Him and allow the power of the Holy Spirit to change your life to become more and more like Jesus.) This is the everlasting Gospel The Great Controversy theme is all about God’s grace to save sinners and through His power to transform (? not adopt?) them into His sons and daughters The atoning blood of Jesus Christ on the cross and the atoning ministry of Jesus Christ in the heavenly sanctuary have but one purpose; the salvation of every repentant sinner Our only ground of hope is in the righteousness of Christ imputed to us (justification), and in that wrought by His Spirit working in and through us (sanctification).” God used Ellen G White as a humble servant to provide inspired insight about Scripture, prophecy, health, education, relationships, mission, families, and so many more topics. Let us read the Spirit of Prophecy, follow the Spirit of Prophecy and share the Spirit of Prophecy. The Spirit of Prophecy is one of the identifying marks of God’s last-day people and is just as applicable today as ever before because it was given to us by heaven itself. As God’s faithful remnant, may we never make of none effect the precious light given us in the writings of Ellen G. White. praising Him for calling us into this mighty Advent movement When we are transformed by His grace, we will preach, teach, and witness to the straight message from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy Let us not make God wait any longer to begin the latter rain so that Jesus can come. we will be used by the Holy Spirit to proclaim His grace and to hasten the coming of the Lord In the book Christ’s Object Lessons we read of Christ’s wish for His people, “Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. the vindication of His plan of salvation before the whole universe The historic Biblical beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church will not be moved go forward to the prophetic understanding that loyalty to God, the Creator and Redeemer, will be seen in the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath as the distinguishing characteristic of God’s people in the very end of time. Utilize wonderful resources such as the Biblical Research Institute’s new book on hermeneutics that helps us know the correct way to interpret the Scriptures. the Spirit of Prophecy provides clear, inspired council to aid our application of Bible truth. It is a heaven-sent guide to instruct the church in how to carry out its mission. It is a reliable theological expositor of the Scriptures. The Spirit of Prophecy is to be read, believed, applied and promoted. Go forward in reading and adhering to the counsel of the SOP | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 146 Registered: 6-2008 |
Don't those quotes that say we have the power to "hasten the coming of Jesus" imply that we control God? What utter blasphemy! And calling the failed prophecies and other works of a lying, abusive plagiarist a "heaven-sent guide" implies that God approves of those tactics. And why would the Almighty God, the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, the owner of everything, need "vindication" from puny, sinful humans? When I read those statements a few years ago I was convinced of the absolutely evilness of EGW's work and life, and finally lost all lingering shreds of doubt that she was a tool of Satan. We can hope and pray that some sitting in that huge audience will be impressed by the Holy Spirit to think about it carefully and analyze the underlying "deep meaning" and realize what is really being said. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1117 Registered: 3-2009 |
The name Seventh-day Adventist mean that they believe in the seventh-day and in the soon return of Jesus to earth. However, the seventh-day was given to the Jews, not the Christians, and they really do not believe in the soon return of Jesus. Based on the statement by their prophetess and repeated by their president in this address:
Jesus will never come because as of now no one has perfectly reproduced His character, and no one will ever do it before Christs comes and transforms us. Our perfection is imputed to us by Christ, it is not a perfection that we can attain and/or reproduce. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11369 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jonvil, I agree--Wilson's speech was explicit and revealed his clear advocacy of historic Adventism. I was also interested in some of the definitions he gave—seldom defined in Adventism but always implied—while concurrently leaving enough ambiguity so individual Adventists would have a hard time explaining these concepts. I believe the ambiguity is not accidental. Anyway, here are a few of the definitions I notice:
According to this quote, Gospel = the righteousness of Christ. Notice: NO CROSS and NO BLOOD. Neither is there resurrection in his definition of "Gospel". According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4:
When Adventists refer to "the righteousness of Christ" they mean His sinless life which demonstrated His personal success in allowing the Holy Spirit to give Him victory over temptation, thus resisting sin. This righteousness is an example to them of their own potential ability to overcome sin in an ongoing way. First, this understanding is NOT the biblical definition of Christ's righteousness; instead, His righteousness is defined thus:
And again:
Another definition he gave: Grace is the promise of God's pardon and the provision of God's power—justification and sanctification. He goes on to explain, "You cannot separate what Christ does FOR you (justifying you daily as if you had not sinned) from what He does IN you (sanctifying you daily as you submit to Him and allow the power of the Holy Spirit to change your life to become more and more like Jesus.) NO! We are wholly justified, past, present, and future when we place our trust in Jesus' atonement and are born of His Spirit. Then Wilson says, "This [the explanation I've just quoted] is the everlasting Gospel spoken about in the first angel's message. It is righteousness by faith." And in that explanation we see a bit of the "unpacking" of the Adventist term, "righteousness by faith". They use this term, and Christians are generally deceived when they hear it. Wilson has just exposed the true Adventist meaning of righteousness by faith: relying on "our relationship with [Jesus] for our salvation", receiving justification over and over every day [on the basis of our obedience], and being increasingly sanctified every day as we submit to Him and become "more and more like Jesus"—in other words, "righteousness by faith" is living in obedience to the law and becoming increasingly more nearly righteous in the same way Jesus was. And here's a point to ponder: Let us not make God wait any longer to begin the latter rain so that Jesus can come. I am so thankful to be relieved from the burden of preventing our Sovereign God from pouring out His Spirit and inhibiting the King of Kings from coming again... Colleen | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2008 |
Now I wonder if Wilson and all those in leadership will dare to be so bold and clear about the SDA message when they talk with Christians and people of other beliefs, and not only when they are addressing a full auditorium of enthusiastic supporters that, almost undoubtedly, will agree and cheer to all they say. If that is the message they think everybody needs to hear, their 'gospel', then they should proclaim it openly to the world... And not so ambiguously, as it's usually done. At least that way people will know where the official SDA beliefs stand. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 393 Registered: 4-2007 |
Ted Wilson kinda reminds me of some of the 'defenders of the faith' who post on CARM so I think he's a dream come true. I think Ted is not going to be interested in trying to fit in or blend with other denominations but instead plead with them to come out of their Babylon and accept the Adventist 'truth'. As a devotee of their 'Profitess' I foresee him moving the church away from the ambiguous presentation of what they believe (in their desire to 'sound' mainstream, more 'evangelical') and will adopt instead a more of an in-your-face presentation of the Adventist historic traditional beliefs. Of course this is pure speculation, wishful thinking, but if he actually continues in this same vein the moderates will be stampeding to the exits. On the other hand he may be smarter than that and his speech was just a political ploy, a show for the frozen chosen. John | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2009 |
I wonder if this forum and this website in general have received more traffic than usual since this new turn of events. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8294 Registered: 3-2004  |
I just read what he said in his Saturday sermon. No mention of the cross and what it means to Christians. Oops, he is adventist and not Christian!! Sorry about that. His emphasis on the SOP (Sorry Old Person - can't help it, just had to Say that) and no mention of Jesus death and resurrection makes me glad he is sda GC president. Hopefully he keeps talking this way. That way Christians will know what sdas really believe. Those who have heard Dale Ratzlaff will see that he, as well as any former sda who is a Christian, are telling the truth about adventism. Our awesome God is in charge. Diana L | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 665 Registered: 11-2007 |
Back to the same old thing I have been hearing since SDA grade school. Justification happens in an instant. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime. Total rubbish. I really believe most adventists believe in the justification part. The part they don't get is that we are sanctified in the same instant. It is not something we earn or something we have to strive for. Surfy | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 2038 Registered: 4-2000  |
Hec, You gave an excellent analysis of COL, page 69. Since the first perfect Adventist has not been identified nor boldly stepped forward, Jesus will never return (according to this popular statement by EGW). Thus, Adventists claim to be able to even control and/or delay the second coming of Christ. Regrettably and sadly, while an Adventist minister in the Carolina Conference, I included COL, page 69 in many of my sermons to receptive SDA audiences as well. Sometimes I preached as many as three sermons in one day in three different SDA churches. In fact, I can still recite this perfectionist quote from Ellen White without any notes. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 514 Registered: 1-2006  |
Dennis I can quote, too (sadly). I praise God for redeeming guys like you and me. Thanking God for your courage and humility. Bob | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 2044 Registered: 4-2000 |
Bob, As a child, I was required to memorize alot of things (in German) for Sabbath School in a German-speaking SDA Church. I can still recite some German passages from Luther's translation. I treasure a copy of Martin Luther's German Bible in the old, obsolete German script. Although they spoke and read English fluently, my parents always prayed in German. Somehow they didn't feel comfortable in addressing God in English. The occasional humor amongst Germans was that the Bible indicates that even God speaks German. If in doubt, read Luther's translation (smile). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8302 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am so glad God took over 20 years to bring me to Him. During that time I forgot so much of what egw wrote, the IJ and a bunch of other "stuff". I learned that when I did not tithe God still blessed me. He also blessed me even when I did not "keep" the sabbath. I went dancing, to the movies and took my son to them. Joined the Civil Air Patrol with my son and learned how to rescue people with them. He taught me what His love is and how to apply it in my every day life. There are so many things I learned and did not realize it until God got ahold of me 6 1/2 years ago. After that I saw how He had been leading me. I thought it was just me learning to be a mature adult. When God called me 6 1/2 years ago, I was ready to leave. I am so glad He took so long to teach me. Even though the only church I attended, when I did attend church was the sda church, I never wanted to go back there as a member and did not want my name put back on the books. I even told the pastor there I would not rejoin it, but I would join a church that accepted me like my 12 step program did. Thank you awesome God for redeeming me. Diana L | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1718 Registered: 6-2006  |
Dennis, that's funny ~ I used to chuckle every time my husband's SDA grandfather prayed because it would be in the King James Version. He always prayed to "thee" and "thy" and "thou". This is just me, but I got the impression that he was scared to death he'd say something wrong in the prayer, so adding the KJV in some way would help...  Leigh Anne | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 447 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jonvil, I reckon you a right smart man. Steve | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8306 Registered: 3-2004 |
With Ted as GC president I wonder if SDAs will continue to not tell people who runs the Prophecy Seminars. Will they continue to be deceptive???? Diana L | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 2045 Registered: 4-2000 |
As repeatedly verified by the Voice of the Martyrs organization, Christians are now suffering unspeakable pain, imprisonment, hard labor, and death for their faith as never before witnessed. The Three Self Patriotic Movement, in mainland China, that regulates some registered Protestant groups has become cozy with Seventh-day Adventists (akin to German Adventists during the Nazi regime). The illegal and thriving underground house church movement in China continues to be harshly persecuted for their activities. Whereas, official Adventism reports a growing alliance and cooperation with the Communist officials. SDA news reports are in stark contrast to those of the Voice of Martyrs and other Christian organizations. (http://news.adventist.org/2010/07/new-adventist-presid.html) Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 2046 Registered: 4-2000 |
PS: German Adventists were greatly impressed that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, and they voted overwhelmingly for him. As the link above indicates, once again SDA vegetarianism takes center stage as a favorable link with despotic (Communist) leaders. Adventist history repeatedly verifies that SDA leaders side with the political opponents of biblical Christianity (i.e., in the former Soviet Union, etc.). In 1986, N. C. Wilson, father of Ted Wilson, greatly impressed the Soviet dictators with his visit shortly after the Chernobyl nuclear reactor disaster. Wilson played right into the Soviet propaganda that everything was fine and under control near the failed nuclear reactor. This was during the time when many foreign dignitaries cancelled scheduled visits to the Soviet Union. Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on July 09, 2010) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8312 Registered: 3-2004 |
http://www.atoday.com/content/report-ted-n-c-wilson-shares-his-priorities-coming-five-years This was written by Adventist Today and gives Wilson's priorities. Go check it out. Diana L | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 395 Registered: 4-2007 |
Read the comments as well, some unhappy campers. |
