| Author |
Message |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:49 pm: |     |
Hello everyone,
First let me say that if this is in the wrong place please move it to the more appropriate place.
I requested membership here to help a friend of mine who is getting involved in the SDA church. It is not my intention to say anything belittling or irritating towards anyone. I only want to better answer my friend's questions.
A little about me. I was baptized in the Baptist church back in 1976, I wandered away in 1978. In 1985 the Lord put a preacher in my life for 6 months that never preached a word to me, he just gave me a Bible with my name on it. I still have that Bible today. After the preacher got his next assignment, God put my best friend in my life to lead by example. We've been friends now for about 25 years now. He was my best man at my wedding 10 months ago when I got married to my lovely wife Karrie. God orchestrated both our lives so that we met when we were more in tune with Him and understood what it means to be married.
An example of how He orchestrated our lives, back when I was 25 (in 1985) friends would ask me when I was going to get married? I always told them "Well, as soon as she gets here from Alaska and I think she's walking!" Well, guess what? Karrie was on a mission trip 50 miles East of the Alaska border in Northern Canada at that time! How could I have known that?? Of course I didn't, that was just my way of saying "not right now!"
Anyway, I hope I haven't bored y'all. I just wanted to tell you something about myself and why I'm here. I look forward to talking to you all.
(And a special thanks to Richard for getting my membership request through so quickly.) |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 1151
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:56 pm: | |
Welcome D!
Hec |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 38
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:03 pm: | |
Welcome to the Forum Dljc !
Wow this place is busy today, three new members and counting!
If it's answers about SDA you want, you have come to the perfect place.
Kent |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:06 pm: | |
Hello Hec, thanks for the welcome. I wasn't sure what all to say. I'm not an "ex-Adventist" but I have a friend who is getting involved in that church. I do see the flaw in the doctrines like you all do here.
BTW, my name is Cliff I didn't mention that in my intro. |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:10 pm: | |
Thanks Kent,
I can see that there is a wealth of info here. Does the SDA church preach about the other 9 Commandments as much as they seem to stress the one? (the 4th Commandment of course) |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 40
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:25 pm: | |
Dljc they stress the 4th above about everything else, including Jesus Christ! It seems that they are more concerned about what day they worship on than who that worship is directed to. Because of this, they have a distorted view of who Christ is.
Kent |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11424
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:29 pm: | |
Welcome Dljc. You've definitely come to the right place, and we definitely are happy to have you with us!
Good question about the other nine commandments. In theory, yes--they'll give lip service to the Ten Commandments. In practice, however, behind the scenes where they can't be easily observed, there's a lot of bearing false witness in the form of gossip, there's a lot of sexual abuse and misconduct, and there's actually a lot of murder in the form of abortion.
Colleen |
Michaelsavedbygrace
Registered user
Username: Michaelsavedbygrace
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:46 pm: | |
Hi Dljc,
This is my first day here too! What a breath of fresh air being here! I hope you feel the same way.
In my studies I have discovered that Ellen White teaches a modified version of the Old Covenant which demands perfect obedience or else.
"Under the new covenant, the conditions by which eternal life may be gained are the same as under the old--perfect obedience." - Ellen White, Amazing Grace page 136.
God does require perfect obedience, but here is the truth, please don't miss it. Jesus offered God on our behalf PERFECT OBEDIENCE! Only His righteousness is sufficient. Only His blood and only his life of right doing is good enough. Ellen White took the eyes of the Adventist off of this truth and made them look inwardly at themselves teaching that we ourselves are supposed to live perfect lives in order to be saved. I lived in this cults teachings for 18 years. I can agree with Martin Luther who said, "If ever a monk had lived who has tried to live up to all that monks are demanded to do, it was I."
Paul said the same, that he had lived up to all the Pharisee's requirements, but when he was converted he realized that at his best he was nothing more than a wretched man in need of God's grace. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
After nearly two decades the Lord opened my eyes. Amazing Grace... I once was blind but now I see.
I have called my friends and family members even friends from 20 years ago to tell them my testimony and warn them away from the bondage of Adventism.
I am glad you are here. I pray you find the answers you are seeking. I get the feeling we are both among friends who care and want to help. |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 9:55 pm: | |
Oh my! I kind of figured that, but just wanted to ask.  Colleen what you said made me think of Jesus in Matthew 23. (Hypocrites!)
I asked that question probably for obvious reasons. Just about every conversation my friend and I have it always ends up being about the Sabbath. I get frustrated with him about it, but I just keep trying to show him where they have things wrong. I can see that he knows the Truth, but they are getting to him by fear. They like to use (he likes to use it too) Matthew 7:21-23 in my humble opinion they use that as a scare tactic. I've even told him that.
Thank you all for the warm welcome. I have talked with other active SDA's, but this guy is a close friend and I hate to see him get deceived. |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:02 pm: | |
Hi Dljc!
I'm a "never-been" too (although I married into an SDA family). There are actually a couple of us here. Welcome aboard!
Leigh Anne |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:05 pm: | |
Thank you Michael, and yes it is a breath of fresh air here. I used something from one of your posts already. The part where you pointed out that every significant event with the early church happened on Sunday. Thanks for that nugget!
I know the only way to reach him is with Scripture. I sent him down the Romans Road to try and show him just how much we need Jesus.
I have to say one thing, whether I have any effect or not today. I do hope that one day he will come to me and say, you know, you were right. I just hope that it won't be too late for him.(with Ezekiel 33:1-9 in mind on that comment) |
Asetechrail
Registered user
Username: Asetechrail
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:05 pm: | |
Dljc,
Michaelsavedbygrace sent me a zip file with some very good charts that would quite likely be a valuable tool in witnessing to your friend. I asked him for them and had them on my hard drive within minutes!
I have a slow internet connection which makes it kind of hard to keep up sometimes, but that zip file came through fast.
Kent |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:06 pm: | |
Hi Leigh Anne, and thank you for the warm welcome. |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:09 pm: | |
Thanks Kent, I'll email Michael. |
Bobj
Registered user
Username: Bobj
Post Number: 534
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:13 pm: | |
Welcome Dljc!
Thanks to you for caring for your adventist friend!
I've been blessed just reading the posts here. I wish the same for you!
Bob |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:23 pm: | |
Thank you Bob, I have, it's been a blessing to find this site, and meet all of you nice people here that are also willing to help my friend. That's what a real "body" does. |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 442
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:28 pm: | |
Welcome Cliff and Michael! It's really great to have you both here. Many generations of sdaism represented on this forum.
Cliff-Galations is a great book to encourage your friend to prayerfully read. |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:31 pm: | |
Hi Nowisee, thanks for the welcome and the reference of Galatians. I've tried to get him to but he's looking at things from the perspective of the Letter of the Law, and not the Spirit or Grace. He's sees what they've told him to see. Right now we're looking at Acts Chapter 2. ;) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11426
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:07 pm: | |
Dljc, yes, Acts 2 is full of "stuff" that goes against typical SDA-think. it may be hard to get him actually to see it, though, since he doesn't believe in a human spirit--and thus, the new birth is more metaphor than real. The Holy Spirit, to an Adventist, interacts with the human cognitive mind. The concept of a spirit that is either dead or alive is totally missing.
For this reason, sometimes it's easier to begin to get an Adventist to "see" by addressing the law, as in Galatians, which you said your friend is resisting.
The other thing is that when an Adventist doesn't want to see, discussion just becomes ongoing unresolved debate and often hardens the dedicated Adventist.
It's vital to pray for God to open their hearts and eyes. They are totally clouded by the veil of 2 Cor. 3, and only God's miracle can effect a crack in the armor!
Colleen |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 2193
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 4:28 am: | |
Cliff,
Welcome! I see I am going to be slow getting to breakfast this morning just by 'shaking hands' with all the wonderful new folks.
Fearless Phil |
Bb
Registered user
Username: Bb
Post Number: 728
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 6:13 am: | |
Hi Dljc!
Welcome!! Yes we have some never-beens who really help us keep focused sometimes (shout out to Leigh Anne and River) But you may learn more on this forum than you would have ever dreamed!! And it is a great group! |
Yenc
Registered user
Username: Yenc
Post Number: 197
Registered: 6-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:46 am: | |
Welcome, DLJC!
This Forum is addictive, so brace yourself! ALL kinds of people are here, and ALL kinds of questions are addressed.
My sister and I were raised SDA, but we both left some years ago (for entirely different reasons). A few years ago, as God was bringing me out of agnosticism to Himself, my sis tried to teach me about the New Covenant, which I still say I had NEVER heard about as an SDA. Studying later, (to shorten a story) I found out that the New Covenant was indeed truth! But here's the rub: To be absolutely accurate, we can't say "there is no more law" for Christians!
The confusion lies in the definitions of "Law" and of "commandments." To most SDA's, the Law is the 10 Commandments, what they call the "moral law." Giving up that 'law" means rampant immorality to SDA's, so of course, they resist. They say Jesus only removed the "ceremonial law" of sacrifices, the rituals, etc. But that's not the whole story! Even many non-SDA Christians miss part of it.
Jesus Himself said there are only two commandments now. Matt. 22:34-40. And even these can be boiled down to one word: LOVE! The paradox is that you don't love anyone, God or your fellow man, by being ordered to do so! Love can only come from a re-born heart. And that's what the New Covenant is all about.
I didn't even have an inkling of what all this meant until I sat down and read Galatians --all the way through at one sitting-- every day for several days. After about the 4th time through, I began to get an inkling. Then it became "What? I never saw that before!" Then, "WOW!"
I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it sure was an eyeopener for hard-headed, SDA-saturated me!
God bless you, Dljc!
Yen |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:41 am: | |
Thank you all for the warm welcome you have given me. You can't imagine how much this has blessed me to see so many folks that have had their eyes and hearts opened by Him. Please don't take that as a shot, I don't mean it that way at all. It is because you got into His Word that you found the Truth and were set free. We are made overcomers by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. (Rev 12:11)
Yenc something you said struck me as interesting.
Posted by Yenc [Jesus Himself said there are only two commandments now. Matt. 22:34-40. And even these can be boiled down to one word: LOVE! The paradox is that you don't love anyone, God or your fellow man, by being ordered to do so! Love can only come from a re-born heart. And that's what the New Covenant is all about.
I didn't even have an inkling of what all this meant until I sat down and read Galatians --all the way through at one sitting-- every day for several days. After about the 4th time through, I began to get an inkling. Then it became "What? I never saw that before!" Then, "WOW!]
If you consider both parts of what you have said with Galatians 5:22,23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22-23)
That is the hardest thing to understand and get across to almost anyone. But consider what it's saying, if you are walking in the Spirit, you will exhibit all the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit/manifestations of the flesh. Therefore, there is no law against the Spirit. The Spirit is in complete and perfect obedience to God because it's Him working through you! You are dead to "self".
That is the hardest thing for us all to understand. I've done many studies on this topic and have studied human behavior now since 1984. I've done Spiritual Warfare studies too. I've asked many atheist's if they could follow the two Commandments Jesus gave us quoting the same passage you have. They all can agree that the Second Commandment given by Jesus is something they could live by (i.e. loving your neighbor as yourself), the First one is the one they have trouble with of course.
Thanks again everyone, there is a wealth of information on this site. Thanks to folks like you that just want to share your testimony with others. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 8344
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 4:34 pm: | |
Dljc, Welcome to FAF. I see all the others got to you before I did. Glad you and the 2 Michaels are here.
Diana L |
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2
Post Number: 710
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 5:48 pm: | |
Welcom Dljc,
It is because of people like you that are willing to befriend and lovingly tell SDAs the truth that people like me are saved today. The ex-SDA pastor that preached the gospel to me was befriended by Baptists which ultimately played a role in his journey to leaving the SDA church
Enoch |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:53 pm: | |
Thank you FlyingLady and Psalm107v2 or Enoch, take a look at the thread I started on The Truth vs. Bondage. I'll post something in there relating to this message.
You all have made me feel very welcome here, thank you so much for your love and compassion. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 8:17 pm: | |
Welcome Dljc!
Adventists are really decieved about the fourth commandment. One thing that really gets to them is that Exodus 20:8 says "Remember." The thing that they don't realize though, is that commandment had already been given to Israel some weeks earlier at the giving of the manna (Exodus 16:23-29). (At least I swallowed that line when I was an Adventist because I just listened to what the pastors had to say instead of reading the Bible to KNOW. I didn't know any better because I was so certain that the SDA church was right! I don't know WHY I was so certain - maybe it was because Ellen White held up that big heavy Bible over her head. Miracles are no indicator though - demons can do miracles too.)
Another thing Adventists are stuck on is because God rested the seventh-day of creation [Adam and Eve's second day] (Genesis 2:2,3). That's the one day of creation where it doesn't say "and the evening and the morning were the ____ day."
They don't realize that God never STOPPED resting! In Hebrews 4, God invites everyone to enter His rest and says that Israel did NOT enter it, though they kept the Sabbath very religiously on pain of death!
Adventists don't realize that the seventh-day Sabbath was a sign of the old covenant between God and Israel (Exodus 31:13).
I didn't even realize that there WERE an old and a new covenant when I was an SDA, though the word "testament" means "covenant" and though the pastor would solomnly read Jesus' words "this is the New Covenant in My blood," each communion.
I didn't know that Moses told Israel that God had declared His covenant, the Ten Commandments, to them (Deuteronomy 4:13), and also said: "The Lord did not make this covenant with our father, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive." (Deuteronomy 5:3).
Hebrews 8:13 says that the old covenant is obsolete. Hebrews 9:15-17 says that Jesus had to die in order to bring in the new covenant [testament] ("And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death...")
Colossians 2:16,17 says that all the different kinds of Sabbaths - yearly/seasonal, monthly and weekly - were a shadow of Jesus. |
Dljc
Registered user
Username: Dljc
Post Number: 22
Registered: 7-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 10:42 am: | |
Hi Asurprise! Thank you for the warm welcome and the explanation of things, they are a help. One of the big things I see when speaking (chatting via email) with my friend is the phrase "God is love". And with this phrase in mind, God isn't going to punish people for eternity because "He is love". That's not what Jesus said. Jesus spoke just as much if not more on hell and the outer darkness and weeping/wailing and gnashing of teeth, as He did about Heaven. The Salvation message in John 3:15-21 shows that we've been given the choice, and we judge ourselves.
Anywho, it's nice meeting you. |