| Author | Message | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1088 Registered: 3-2009 |
If the Jews had not authority to put anyone to death, and that's why they had to appeal to Pilate to execute Jesus Why were they able to execute Stephen?
Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6354 Registered: 9-2006  |
Because their heart was no right with God, they murdered him and broke the law they claimed to follow. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 388 Registered: 1-2007  |
They were plotting and scheming to put Jesus to death. And they knew to do have it done by the hands of the Romans. John 11:47-53 47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, "What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. 48 "If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they planned together to kill Him. Paul | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1566 Registered: 11-2007  |
Stephen wasn't as much of a huge public figure either.. they may have been able to kill him in a fit of rage and stay under the Roman radar. I saw that recently too - the contradiction there in their actions. Very interesting. Paul was about to be torn to shreds too wasn't he before the Romans came and rescued him and put him in prison? The emnity of evil against the truth is blind rage and hate. | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 711 Registered: 8-2008 |
The occupation terms with the occupying Romans meant that the Jews could not put anyone to death, except if the person committed a sin against the Temple. That is why the Jewish leaders attempted to get witnesses to say Jesus had blasphemed the Temple, but the charges didn't stick. Note first the charge against Stephen: And then Stephen said This may have been enough for them to feel they had grounds to kill him. At any rate, the original charge included blaspheming the Temple, so therefore Stephen was under the jurisdiction of the Temple guards and could be stoned to death. (Message edited by bskillet on June 22, 2010) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6359 Registered: 9-2006 |
God allowed them Stephens death, but it compounded their guilt. God was not standing around wringing his hands helplessly at what was being done. Yet Gods love for Stephen was not reduced one iota. But woe to the one whose guilt was compounded by their choice of action against one of Gods saints. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11337 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bskillet, that's true. Furthermore, Jewish law did allow Jews to kill by stoning if a capital offense was committed, although they had to live under the law of Rome as a conquered state. The ESV study notes on John 18:31 are interesting:
And the NIV Study Notes on John 18:32 say this:
Very good points, River. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1289 Registered: 7-2007 |
Actually, they DID try to stone Jesus. "Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them and so passed by." John 8:59 And here's another one. "and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff." Luke 4:29 | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1567 Registered: 11-2007 |
Asurprise.. yes, people controlled by hate don't care what any law states - which is why people still murder with no regard to the law. Very interesting stuff about the laws regarding the temple and what the Romans allowed though! Didn't know that. Adds a new dimension to the stories! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1089 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thanks for your answers, guys. Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6374 Registered: 9-2006 |
Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, When they heard the truth being told them the Bible says they were cut to the heart, they didn’t recognize what Stephen was telling them as lies, they knew it was the truth, otherwise it couldn’t have cut to the heart. Then it says they stopped their ears rushed together to lay hold on him. The fascinating thing about this account of Stephen, is that they had the opportunity to either accept the truth and repent, or reject the truth and become murderers. Whats fascinating about this is that it happens over and over again today. Not littoral stoning of course, if people did that today in the states at least, they would be brought up on charges. But the covering of the ears and the gnashing (grinding) of teeth still happens today. It happens when the gospel is preached, the stopping of the ears, and the grinding of teeth. It happens when Proclamation goes out to Adventist homes. When the letters to the editor comes in you can literally feel the animosity, and the grinding of teeth from some of the people who write in. People either accept it, or reject it. So in a spiritual sense its still happening today. In Islamic country’s to preach the gospel is to perhaps invite death or imprisonment, they too, stop their ears and grind their teeth on the gospel. There are the spectacular cases like Stephen, but there are the millions of the not-so spectacular at all cases in which people stop their ears and grind their teeth at the gospel when it is preached to them. I read of case almost every day on this forum where the Adventist relatives of members stop their ears and grind their teeth against the preaching of the gospel to them. Is it the same as Stephen? In effect, yes. But which is it easier to do? Look into it and repent? Or grind your teeth and stop your ears? Seems to me it would be much easier to repent than try to maintain and untenable position. It’s the same principle as the ones who gnashed their teeth, and stopped their ears on Stephen, they go to great lengths to maintain an untenable position. At the end of acts chapter six, and the beginning of chapter seven the high priest ask Stephen, ‘Are these charges true?’ and Stephen begins to take them back over the well traveled roads they knew so well, they knew in their heart that they had not kept the law, and the end result was, instead of repentance, rejection of the truth, the stopping of the ear, and the grinding of teeth against the truth. Former Adventists take them back over the well traveled roads the Adventists know so well, and in many cases, it is the same grinding of teeth and the stopping of the ears. The stones that are hurled by them are the words of bitter rejection, and it hurts the heart like a sharp stone to be rejected and made to feel like an outcast by ones own family. The Bible says Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Some gladly accept it, and some stop their ears, and grind their teeth against it. I’ve had a couple people tell me in essence that to keep telling them after they reject, that this makes them responsible. Poppy cock, they were responsible before I ever got there! Ignorance is not bliss, its costly. The word of God will not be removed just because somebody don’t like it nor understand it, and in the end God will confirm his word. The cross of Christ won’t be put asunder just because somebody rejects it, or is ignorant of it. River | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 391 Registered: 1-2007 |
River, Excellent point, The Gospel should cut at the heart. Circumcision is of the Spirt in the heart, cutting off the flesh. The Word certainly did cut at their hearts, but sadly they as do Adventists, they grieve the Holy Spirit, they stop their ears and grind their teeth. They keep looking to their flesh, they depend on their works to save them, or to make them righteous. I have read the Stephen story so many times, and never seen it like that. Thanks. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11342 Registered: 12-2003 |
Excellent point,, River. You know, having lived on "both sides now", the HUGE hurdle that Adventists and others who believe a false gospel must overcome is, quite honestly, pride. It doesn't feel like pride at the time; it feels like so much disturbing confusion. But the actual reality of examining truth and evaluating one's deeply-imprinted belief is very disorienting. Underneath all the confusion and struggle, the bottom line is that it's almost an unbearable thought to admit that everything my life has been about has been "wrong". It's embarrassing and humiliating--especially when one has been extremely sincere and observant and even outspoken about it. The reality of so much error, so much unfair criticism and private arrogance toward other Christians, so much misunderstanding of REALITY just reduces one to...to...well, repentance! it really is overwhelming to realize that one has been earnestly wrong in fundamentally profound ways for decades! Colleen | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 712 Registered: 8-2008 |
Dead on correct, Colleen. As an SDA, I struggled to align my prideful conviction that WE alone had the TRUTH, with my difficulties in substantiating said "truth" from the Bible. One of the two had to go. That is the fork in the road all SDAs must face at some point. Either they keep their pride and discard the Bible in exchange for the Old Hag, or they discard Adventism and accept the Bible. Even those who leave Adventism and become atheists or agnostics do so because they are SURE that only Adventists/EGW are most correct in their interpretation of the Bible. And since they believe that Adventism is faulty somewhow, they then jump to the incorrect conclusion that the Bible is faulty as well. Repentance means we have to throw away everything we hold dearest about ourselves and our world. That is why there is not a single soul that has ever repented without repentance being given him or her by God's grace. Left to our own devices, we would all quite literally prefer to burn in hell than repent. (Message edited by bskillet on June 24, 2010) (Message edited by bskillet on June 24, 2010) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6375 Registered: 9-2006 |
"We shun the perception of being arrogant, and we don't want to come across as being overly exclusive, but at the same time we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; that while a believer can be saved as a Catholic, I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community." Jan Paulsen, Adventist Review, June 13, 2002. That is shunning the perception of pride and arrogance? I am rich as Bill gates too.  River | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 392 Registered: 1-2007 |
My question, Do you think Jan Paulsen really believes that? Or do you think he is just going through the motions, keeping his goats in line and earning his bread? Paul | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6376 Registered: 9-2006 |
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Proverbs 14:12 What is the way that seems right, but leads to death? The way that leads to death, but seems right. River | ||
| Gorancroatia Registered user Username: Gorancroatia Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2010 |
Paul, it is good question. I think that it is some natural law or something that makes difference line among lays and clerics. I think that Paulsen is very sure that he is on the right way, himself. The others SDas are although in mud and with minor blessings from God, than He The Paulsen is. |
