| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11302 Registered: 12-2003  |
I got three books today--Ellen White under Fire by Jud Lake, The Case for the Investigative Judgment by Marvin Moore, and Paper God by Andy Nash. It appears to me that there is a spate of new publications by the SDA organization propping up their identity and beliefs. The Jud Lake book is subtitled, "Identifying the Mistakes of Her Critics". Remember the article Dale Ratzlaff wrote in response to Jud Lake's presentation at the EGW Conference in Oregon? If you don't remember the article, you can access it here: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2006_NovDec.pdf It's the article entitled, "Response to the Ellen White Summit". Lake has written this book to defend Ellen White as a prophet, explaining that she has been maligned by misuse by many churchmen. Endorsements on the back cover are by George Knight, James Nix (Dir. EGW Estate), and Gerhard Pfandl, (assoc. dir. Biblical Research Institute). It's a brand new book with a 2010 copyright date. Also a 2010 book, the Marvin Moore volume on the IJ is subtitled, "Its [the IJ] Biblical Foundation". It marches systematically through the IJ, explaining how it's rooted in Daniel and how the symbols of the sanctuary service are played out in the IJ. The Nash book is the story of his own crisis of faith and his return to denominational employment. (Andy Nash was an asst editor of the Adventist Review in the 90s.) I also looked through a copy of the new Remnant Study Bible (priced $114.99), and I had a visceral reaction to turning the pages and finding the boxes of explanatory EGW quotes sprinkled throughout the biblical text, explaining certain verses in more detail. All I can say is this: the church is not reforming or changing. Quite the contrary--it appears to be firming up its defenses and being more intentional about defending "the faith". Bottom line: people will argue "until the cows come home" about whether or not EGW is legitimate, etc. But the core doctrines of Adventism--the IJ, soul sleep, the Sabbath, and the Great Controversy worldview, are the essential things that define Adventist understandings and beliefs. These things are in blatant opposition to Scripture. Adventism is "another gospel" which is "no gospel at all" (Gal. 1:1-6). Our greatest defense is the word of God. It is, after all, our only defensive weapon (see Eph 6:1-18). Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8234 Registered: 3-2004  |
Amen to all the above Colleen!!! Diana L | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2008 |
There's a great comment in Jeremiah 11:6-8 "Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee. O Lord, thou art great and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee, But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities." Anything that so blatantly presumes to contradict Jesus Himself ("It is finished!") is certainly a doctrine of vanities. That's why they have to defend it ad nauseum! If they let go of IJ, all the rest crumbles! I admire the (Armstrong's) WorldWide Church of God for so courageously admitting their doctrinal errors and dissolving the whole organization. Too bad the SDA Church has to slowly bleed to death instead. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 834 Registered: 2-2008  |
Colleen... I listened to that teaching online that Jud Lake presented at that Ellen White conference. At the end he said that the church admitted that she plagiarized 6-8% of her writings. Is that any better than plagiarizing 80%? She still plagiarized! Also, sadly he taught these people that if they knew someone who didn't believe that egw was a prophet that they shouldn't try to convince that person BUT show them by their actions the FRUIT OF EGW!!!! So where in the Bible should we be bearing the fruit of a person instead of the Holy Spirit? I was wondering what the "Paper God" was about. I saw on one of my friend's wall on FB a picture of him with the author. He was proudly showing off his "signed" copy of the book. I look forward to any reviews that you write on those books. Yenc, I agree with you about the WWCOG. I also admire them for admitting their false doctrines. Especially since my mom puts so much faith in the leaders of the sda church. She told me once that "if our doctrine wasn't true... why would all these leaders continue to teach it? It MUST be true." I told her not to leave her salvation up to men but to depend on the Bible. I think that what happens is that they depend so much on their quarterlies and people to teach them that they don't learn to listen to the Holy Spirit teach them about scripture. They don't trust any conclusion that they come to when they read scripture... they have to make sure that their conclusion matches up with a sda teacher. My mom is too scared to be led away by her own thoughts that she would rather adhere to Batchelor or any other leader. sad. vivian | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 564 Registered: 2-2003  |
It sure is, Is it around 1 billion people who believe that Mohammed is a prophet and are willing to blow themselves up in a supermarket to make sure of a place in paradise? So what? Be led by the Holy Spirit! | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 856 Registered: 7-2000 |
Vivian, your mom's faith in the leaders of the SDA church reminds me of the words of John 7:43-49: Thus the people were divided because of Jesus. Some wanted to seize him, but no on laid a hand on him. Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, "why didn't you bring him in?" "No one ever spoke the way this man does," the guards declared. "You mean He has deceived you also?" the Pharisees retorted. "HAS ANY OF THE RULERS OR OF THE PHARISEES BELIEVED IN HIM? No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law--there is a curse on them." grace, cindy | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 836 Registered: 2-2008 |
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| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8238 Registered: 3-2004 |
As an SDA I trusted the mininsters and teachers that they were teaching the truth from the Bible. I know we were told to read the Bible for ourselves to see if what they said was true. So I read the proof texts given to me and came to the same conclusion the leaders did. I was a good robot. I am so glad that SDA minister challenged the SS class to read the NT without any other help. I would probably be an unhappy SDA if I had not done that. Thank you awesome God for telling me to take him up on that challenge. Diana L | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 96 Registered: 6-2008 |
Yes, Diana, we were such good little robots! Long ago, when I questioned things I didn't understand and asked too many "Why?"s, I was told, "How DARE you question God and His anointed messenger!" Now I wish I had persisted: it would have saved me from decades of doubt, confusion, discouragement, and self-loathing! Thank God, He kept loving me enough to lead me through my "Wilderness of Sin" to His bright Light! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6310 Registered: 9-2006  |
Cindy, You got one passed me,I had to go and look this verse up to check. John 7:49 "But this crowd that does not know the law is accursed." I just didn't remember that bit of scripture. Now thats alarming! I remembered the one part about 'no one ever spoke like this man' but not the other. Thanks. River | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1283 Registered: 7-2007 |
That was wonderful advice from your pastor, Diana - to read the New Testament without help. If only all Adventists would do that and ask God to reveal the truth to them! Whenever anybody asks God to do that and they REALLY mean it; God will show them the truth. He's wonderful that way! | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 98 Registered: 6-2008 |
River, The KJV is not as ambiguous as the version you used. The KJV says, "(T)his people who knoweth not the law are cursed." In other words, the ignorant Pharisees are cursed,; the proper reading does not imply that it is the law that is cursed. (I'm sure you knew that! I just didn't want anyone to read it thinking it meant the law was accursed!) And yes, that is alarming, indeed! The Bible and a good concordance can be all we really need in the way of books, for we are promised that the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth! John 16:13. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8239 Registered: 3-2004 |
Asurprise, I pray that pastor will take his own challenge and read the NT without any other help. I have given him some books by formers, at God's suggestion. I did not know we had a dead spirit in us. When I started reading the NT I would pray and ask God to have the Holy Spirit teach me. I did not realize why until I was half way through the NT. He did teach me. And Yenc, I bought a Strong's concordance to go with my reading. To bad I did not write it down as I went along. Our awesome God taught me. When I started attending my church I found what they taught is what God taught me as I read the NT. Praise God!!! Diana L | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 680 Registered: 10-2006 |
That is the scariest thing about Adventist evangelistic seminars, people see isolated out of context verses and watch them become transformed unto a doctrine. They mark those verses and chain them together into Bible studies and convince people that they have been mislead by all the teachings they previously learned. There next step - at least for me was to give me lots of books. I, of course got STC, GC, and DA and Bible Readings for the Home (that one probably did more damage than the others - long story), but also got Grafitti in the Holy of Holies, Journey into the Supernatural, and a host of other books all telling me Adventism was right. Those new books will further convince the Adventists that really trust that the leaders are honestly, studying and teaching the fullest extent of truth as they know it that Adventists are the only ones with truth. How 'bout we all pray that those books will not harm anyone searching for truth. Patty | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3253 Registered: 10-2004  |
Yenc, Actually, John 7:49 is the Pharisees speaking. The Pharisees did know the Law very well, and they were saying that the ignorant crowd was accursed because they did not know the Law--even though they knew Jesus. The Pharisees did not know how wrong their statement was, and how things were actually the opposite. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 14, 2010) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11306 Registered: 12-2003 |
Isn't that the truth, Jeremy? It astonishing to discover how inside-out and opposite reality is from the subtle deception of what we once believed. Colleen | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 104 Registered: 6-2008 |
Jeremy, Oops! You're right--Pharisees were saying that the people ignorant of the law (which they were proud of knowing) were accursed. Thanks for catching that, Sharp Eyes! Yen (Sometimes not so sharp!) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6313 Registered: 9-2006 |
Bible readings for the home is a dangerous and subtle book. I have read the thing at least 6 times, and you better know your bible if you read it. It was published in two different versions, a rather beautifully done hardback, and a soft cover I believe. The original hard backs are becoming hard to find, but I have one. The book subtly leads into the Adventist way of thinking by asking questions, then furnishing seemly bible answers. No surprise though, as it was written by Adventists. It is like a compass that is slightly miss-adjusted from the lubber line, if you follow its course, you will end up in the wrong place, and unless you know your bible, you won't even know it. I am very concerned for an Evangelical friend of mine who is into the Bible readings for the Home, I tried once to talk to him about it, but he ignored me, he said he thought maybe he could help Adventist by doing this, but I don't see how one can help an Adventist by feeding the Adventist his own error! Its kind of like feeding a salmonella patient with the same chicken that he got poisoned on! I thought, brother, you're dumber than a turnip! River | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1554 Registered: 11-2007  |
I just burned a copy... that was therapeutic. Which by the way I spotted on a Christian friend's bookshelf who had NO idea it was SDA. He had't read it either, obviously. (Message edited by 8thday on June 15, 2010) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6316 Registered: 9-2006 |
Are you sure you weren't just out of wood down there? Texas won't grow anything taller than a Jack Rabbit. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1558 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hey.. don't knock our beautiful Mesquite shrubs... er... trees. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 697 Registered: 7-2004 |
If you go south enough there are some tall palm trees!! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6326 Registered: 9-2006 |
Speaking of Mesquite, that is some prime stuff for B-B-Q's. Now I'm getting hungry. Whars tha beef? |
