| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6262 Registered: 9-2006  |
They apparently fixed it,I took the survey. | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 482 Registered: 1-2006  |
Phil I took the survey and also said I would not attend an adventist church. I was very clear that I was loved in the adventist church--truly treated well, and I mentioned that in the survey. No one offended me, church standards didn't bother me at all, but the theology is absolutely hopeless. I am more and more convinced that adventism is not even a Christian religion, because at the end, adventism teaches that we will have become perfect enough in the flesh that we must be able to stand in the sight of a Holy God without a Mediator. This is exactly the same as the wicked! At that point, Christ is not the Savior of the Seventh-day Adventist. Paul must have been thinking of adventism when he said "Christ has become of no value to you--Gal 5:2 There are a couple areas on the quiz for comments, and that is where I made these comments. A long time ago there was a discussion here about lipstick on a pig . . . I apologize for my blunt attitude here, but I have lost three adventist relatives so far this year, and am more than just a little unhappy with the burdens these dear people lived under. Stand fast in the freedom--Gal 5:1 Bob Johnston | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1997 Registered: 4-2000  |
I was finally allowed to take the survey this afternoon. I emphasized that my leaving the SDA organization was all about theological differences. Moreover, I commented that cults cannot be completely reformed (i.e., Worldwide Church of God, etc.). Adventists prefer to paint former Adventists as having been offended by someone or having some sort of bad experience with some member or members. These type of formers are the easiest to reclaim. It is important to realize that inactive Adventists are not necessarily former Adventists. Those who make sure that their names are officially removed from the membership roster are indeed former Adventists. However, it is impossible to have experienced Seventh-day Adventism, for many years, without some negative experience with others in that toxic-faith system. Legalists have an inherent trait of constantly judging each other. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2138 Registered: 5-2007  |
Dennis, You are totally correct. For ten years I was an inactive Adventist openly sinning without a peep from the local church I was a member of. The only conflect from any of my SDA family came after I became a 'Sunday Keeping'  evangelical Christian. Fearless Phil | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1697 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hey Y'all, What exactly is the point (or points) of painting formers as "being hurt" by someone or something in the SDA church? Is it kind of a passive-agressive way of placing the blame on the former? Does it just make the SDA members feel better about themselves? I don't get it... I know. For as long as I've been around my SDA family (26 years) it never ceases to amaze me the things I'm still learning!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2139 Registered: 5-2007 |
Lannie, It is a ‘persecution complex’ in reverse. Since you are the true remnant , everyone one else is the enemy and out to harm you. Therefore, anyone who leaves has been tricked by the devil into thinking the true caring church has hurt you instead of all those ‘Sunday Keepers’. After all, if you have the truth, only those who have been hurt would want to leave. It could never be for doctrine. When you have works as your mode of living, you can sin, as long as you don't make it to public. My Great-grandfather was one of the original converts to Adventism in California. He was a drunk who died in county hospital, disowned by the family. My sister and I had been searching for him for many years and only located him by accident because the family lied rather than tell the truth about him. Well, I visited his grave right after the FAF Conference and had a bronse marker put on his potter's grave. I want the whole world to know why he is there and the lies my SDA family told me in an attempt to keep me from learning the truth. Here is a link to where we finally found him: http://www.chanatecemetery.org/Burials.htm Fearless Phil | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2140 Registered: 5-2007 |
Addendum to my last post: My dad’s mother was Myrtle Olive Lillard. Her father was Abraham Newton Lillard, the one buried in the Chanate Cemetery which was originally known as the Sonoma County Cemetery, along with a couple other names over the years. At first each grave was marked with a white painted redwood board with a number on it. Later, that was changed to a soup can filled with cement and the number embedded in it. That was all there was to identify who he was. Legally, he should not have been there since he still had a wife and a profitable farm in the city of Vallejo. The cemetery was abandoned in the early forties and was totally overgrown with poison oak and Manzanita brush. He was lost to history for over seventy-five years and I had been searching for him for almost half of that time. In the website, he is listed as number 697. His soup can marker number is 671 and was under six to eight inches of humus and other debris. Wild turkeys now roam at will there. Because the cans were metal, the graves were located with a metal detector and the markers uncovered. The lies go on and on. He had a son, Shelby, who one of my dad's brothers was named after before his uncle got into serious trouble. One of my SDA cousins carries on this name right up to this day. Anyway, my Great Uncle Shelby Lillard disappeared about the same time as when his dad died. Once again, my family lied when the truth would have been much simpler. For instance, they told me that he was shanghaied off of the San Francisco water front and not seen again. Wrong, we found newspaper articles and court records that tell the sad story how he had raped an underage girl in Vallejo and sent to San Quentin. In my family, there are many stories like this that tell the sad results of attempting to live by the non-functional Adventist doctrine of works based righteousness that destroys lives. P.S. When River talks about “petting the snake” I know exactly what he means. I could go on with my family stories but it would only add more to what I have already shared. Fearless Phil | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2141 Registered: 5-2007 |
There is one more thing I think I should clarify. All the terrible things about how false doctrine has affected my family was not the reason I left the SDA church. At the time of my departure, I knew none of this. I have been out of Adventism for well over fifty years. These are things I have learned only in the last few years as a byproduct of becoming a genealogist and researching my family history. History, of one sort or another, has always been an interest of mine. Just didn't know my own history and background would become something of importance. Fearless Phil | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 758 Registered: 12-2007 |
Phil, I am happy for you that you were able to find your Great Grandfather. It is so sad your family felt the need to lie about so many things in the family history.... it is too bad they could not understand that it is just that..part of history, the good as well as the bad. I was able to take the survey this evening. I put the following in the comment sections.... 12 Might occasionally go as a "visitor" but I could never again be a "member". I was always treated well, but the doctrine is based not on the Bible but on the writings of Ellen White who was not only NOT a true "Prophet" but was also a mentally unstable woman who was a plagarist,and did not herself live up to the rules she set for others. SDA belongs in the same category with JW's, Mormons and Catholics. each have their Prophet, or Pope and each believe they are Gods only "remnant". # 13 It will never happen they are too focused on the writings of EGW instead of having TOTAL focus on Christ and the BIBLE ONLY. There is too much money to be made on her books and they would have to admit they had made a mistake in believing and teaching the investigative judgment, state of the dead, Sabbath, clean and unclean foods, etc. They will continue to teach EGW Fairy Tales instead of admitting they were wrong, setting aside EGW and the doctrinal errors and teaching the Bible only. sad.: # 15#2 reason is because of # 1 reason. A church cannot meet spiritual needs of people when it is more focused on the teachings of a false prophet than on the teachings of the Bible. As long as the church refuses to admit that Ellen White was a false Prophet and change the doctrines to be in line with the Bible, there will continue to be an exodus from the SDA denomination and into churches that teach the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.I love the Adventist people and only hope that someday with God's leading the General Conference leaders will be convicted to stand up and admit the errors in (and to) the church and to renounce those errors, and determine to go forward with truth as found ONLY in the Bible. IF they would do that, I am sure there would be a new "Great Awakening". I forgot to copy / paste the comments on 19 but was basically the same... dissappointment in the denominations refusal to admit the mistakes and move forward teaching Biblical truth. | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 483 Registered: 1-2006 |
Phil Thank you for your courage in sharing this. Sometimes you just have to take a stand in life, and it's especially difficult when others let you down. Like you, I'd rather not share heartaches with others except for the hope that someone else will benefit from it. I have a relative who is frantic almost to the point of tears over guarding the edges of the sabbath. We would hope that those near and dear to us would come to trust fully in the Lord and grow old gracefully, but it is not always the case. So courage to you, Phil. Thanks again for sharing. Bob | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1698 Registered: 6-2006 |
Phil, thanks for clearing up the confusion. Thanks also for sharing your story. Glad you could finally find your Great Granddad. Lannie | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8209 Registered: 3-2004  |
Phil, thanks for sharing so much of yourself and your family history here. That is all that it is, history!!! Being in Celebrate Recovery I have had to learn family history so I can recovery from my hurts, habits and hang ups. I learned all about the thing both my Mom's and Dad's family knew and no one said a thing. It was the elephant sitting in the living room and no one saw it. Little by little various family members see it. I have written about some of the things here on FAF. I know I have learned it is just history. Nothing else. Diana L | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8210 Registered: 3-2004 |
I just took the survey. When it came to the question if I would attend an SDA church to see what it was like. I marked NO!!! Diana L | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6263 Registered: 9-2006 |
Quote: "I have a relative who is frantic almost to the point of tears over guarding the edges of the sabbath. We would hope that those near and dear to us would come to trust fully in the Lord and grow old gracefully, but it is not always the case." No, it is not always the case, but what I am alarmed about here on this forum, is the evidence I see of people leaning toward extreme Calvinism. I want to encourage you Bob, and all the rest of you, that Christ did die for all, the atonement has been made for them as well as us, and with God, there is no respecter of persons. Those who call upon him, he will not turn away. You folks can make a difference in their lives, you have been there. The work may be slow, and at times you may be disheartened as you see no turning in them, but keep on praying, and keep on bringing them the word as God gives the opportunity, pray for the opportunity. I beseech you not to take a fatalistic view, but to take Dianna's example, and go in faith. Reach Adventists for Christ. I like Dianna's attitude, she has a can do all thing through Christ attitude, and she rejoices over every opportunity God gives her. Go gettem' Dianna! How shall they hear without a preacher? "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" Just pray, 'Here am I God, send me!' But don't pray that prayer unless you really mean it, or you might end up to your neck in Adventists. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8212 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, I could not do anything without God. He is the one who is changing me from the inside out. I am happy to do what ever He puts infront of me. I LOVE it when He lets me have a very small part in a person coming to Him. That really get me excited and Happy!!!! Our awesome God knows how to do His job. Diana L | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 762 Registered: 12-2007 |
Amen Dianna ! What a blessing you are able to both give and receive by following the path that God has set you on. May you reach many hearts for Jesus. Francie | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 763 Registered: 12-2007 |
The reason I put on the survey that I "might" go occasionally as a "visitor" but could never again consider myself a "member" is because if the occasion comes up when I am visiting my MIL and it happens to be on Sabbath I would not be opposed to going to church with her, just as I would hope that if she is visiting here on a Sunday she would go with me to the non denominational church that I have been attending. I would actually like to sit right beside her and be able to see and feel her reaction to the contrast.:-) (I think) LOL Every once in a while I will be in church and listen to a sermon or lesson study and wish that she could have been there to hear it. Francie | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 485 Registered: 1-2006 |
River Thanks for your perspective above. It was the brother of the relative mentioned above who said in despair (on his deathbed) that he was a lost man. I have wondered if it was just a bit of mental illness and despair, or if he was in fact withdrawing unto perdition -- Hebrews 10:39 Obviously, I can't judge but what I am seeing makes me wonder about Jesus' comment about about shaking the dust off our sandals. Love them, pray for them, leave it with the Lord. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6265 Registered: 9-2006 |
Bob, just watch that the shaking of the dust does not culminate in a prideful attitude such as 'I am better than they are. I know this is not true of you, but just saying we have to keep alert against false pride. It is true that when they refuse to hear, you can do nothing about it, but that doesn't stop us from preaching the gospel as long as we have breath, and praying as long as we have the Holy Spirit abiding in us, neither should it cause us to give up hope. The man was suffering the consequences of a life time of following a false set of beliefs that did not have ability to uphold him in life or in death. Those beliefs have to be mixed with faith. Its really hard to see them pass away without having received the Lord Jesus in faith believing. But we have to go on to the next person who will receive the Gospel and believe. Its just hard facts Bob. If you refuse to reach out to the lost, then how is that love? We are not called to play games here, we are called to go out and minister to the needs of others, whatever that need may be. There are days you are going to be oppressed by Satan, days you well be down, days when you will be discouraged, days when all your work will feel like its hopeless. We are called to a hard thing here Bob, and it sure as heck will separate the men from the boys. So when you are down, discouraged, feel hopeless, oppressed to the point where you are in a blue funk, then ask for prayer, and when God lifts you up, get on with it. I don't want to sound like I am preaching, but I feel a preach coming on! Hallelujah, Jesus is Lord and the devil is a lier! | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 140 Registered: 9-2006 |
"...what I am alarmed about here on this forum, is the evidence I see of people leaning toward extreme Calvinism." River, I greatly value your perspective here on this forum, because you're a "never been," and you percieve Adventism clearly. This topic of Calvinism is important to us formers because of what we came out of, so it will continue to crop up on this forum. Here's my take on that: As Adventists, we were taught another extremism, that of our absolute, sovereign free will that God values more than His own divinity. Doug Batchelor still preaches about Jesus risking the destruction of the Trinity. Jesus died to preserve for us, His adopted children, the privilege of rejecting Him. Ellen White built her great controversy theology on the doctrine of human sovereignty. Now that I've come clean from Ellen, I'm learning what "Jesus is Lord" really means. All those arguments of Ellen's about how we begin our salvation through "Steps to Christ," and how we must perfect our characters so that we can vindicate God in the end, are offensive and drive us to see the real God. Adventists are quick to label any talk of eternal security as Calvinistic, because they want to place responsibility for salvation on themselves, which means being able to drop out at any time. Their freedom to die is their highest value, not God's glory, or the gift of eternal life (they want God to be a spiritual Jack Kevorkian). For those reasons, we want to be precise when we apply the label of Calvinism. It can mean different things to us. So, speaking for myself, that is why I became passionate about God's sovereignty. Now, if I ever become indifferent or fatalistic about the souls of others, then I am also denying God's glory, and his power to save to the uttermost. I can't really speak for other members of this forum, but it seems that we are trying to hold to both God's glory and a passion for the lost, at the same time. I still stagger down this road, but I know the pit from which I've been rescued! Martin C |
