| Author | Message | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hi to you all from Australia! I’m new on here and thought I’d share a little bit about myself, and where I’m at with SDA… I am second generation SDA on one side and at least 3rd gen on the other. I went to SDA schools pretty much beginning to end, and have attended SDA churches all my life, and although baptized at age 17, I have never felt like I really have a strong relationship with God. Back in 1993 an ex-girlfriend of mine died in the Waco tragedy and since then I have had an interest in anything to do with cults. Imagine my surprise when a few weeks ago I somehow got into a conversation with my brother-in-law & sister-in-law who raised a few questions about whether or not the SDA church was all we had been lead to believe it was! After doing a lot of web-surfing, I came across the “Spirit Behind the Church” video, and all the John Ankerberg Show videos on the exAdventist website. Wow! SDA may be a cult!! Whether or not the video is 100% accurate, it still raises some serious questions, and makes me wonder about the validity of EGW and therefore, the validity of many of the things we are taught as SDA’s. And that’s just it, for me. I’ve been ‘taught’ a whole bunch of things…been convinced that we are right, and therefore have never bothered to check stuff out for myself. My dilemma now is: “Where do I start??!!” EGW, The Sabbath, The Investigative Judgement, Dietary restrictions, etc etc etc… I’m half way through Chuck Missler’s “Learn the Bible in 24 Hours” which is amazing! A very different approach to the Bible! We also now face the dilemma of how to go about changing what we believe and how we go about showing that to our family & friends. All our close friends are SDA’s. My parents are fairly liberal (though they would call themselves SDA’s) and will be fine with whatever we do. My wife’s parents, however, seem to be becoming more conservative in their SDAism as the years go on. No doubt there will be some heartbreak if we ‘leave the truth’… So I’m asking for your help, as people who’ve been through this before. How do we handle transition? Thanks, Steve. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8002 Registered: 3-2004  |
Stevew, First of all welcome to FAF. So glad you are here. I started by reading the NT without any other help, just the Bible. Start with the book of John, read the other gospels, then the rest of the NT. That was part of how I started, but it was the most important part. How I handled transition was to pray a lot, study my Bible and pray some more. I have had it easier then some as my parents are dead and none of my close family are practicing sdas. God had slowly been taking me out for more then 20 years. I had to learn to trust the God I learned about in the Bible. I will pray for you and your family. Diana L (Message edited by Flyinglady on March 07, 2010) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2027 Registered: 5-2007  |
Stevew, Welcome to the forum. First and primary, your relationship with Jesus Christ. When Jesus becomes our Savior and Lord, he sends each of us the promised Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. Chuck Missler and Koinonia House is an excellent resource. As for your question of 'what next', I assume you have already rejected Ellen because she is a false prophet. If not, I would say Investigative Judgement and who is our Scapegoat is critical to your rejection of SDA theology. That plus assurance of your salvation. You can know you have eternal salvation. Understanding Romans chapter eight was key to my departure out of Adventism. Just like Diana suggested, I was first introduced to the gospel of John and then we spent over two years in Romans, in adult Sunday school bible study. Fearless Phil | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 649 Registered: 7-2004 |
Welcome Steve!! I know the dilemma of where to start! I did start with the "Spirit behind the Church" and also the websites, which was very scary to do for me at first. I felt like I might be treading on the "devil's ground". The first thing I started really reading was the history of the Millerite movement. http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/index.html A very interesting read! Then I moved on to figure out ellen white. As long as I held on to her being "inspired by God" I couldn't study without having it clouded by her interpretation of the Bible, which I now believe was a hodge-podge of copying from many Christian authors of her time. The evidence is all there, and the church knows this. That is why they now make excuses for her copying because they don't want to give up on her "beautiful writings". Once I realized that this woman was actually stealing words and passing them off as her own, I was able to release her hold on me. Then comes the beauty of having the Holy Spirit lead you as you study the Bible without her twisted additions. I pray that you will be led to the right information and study! There are also many good books out there if you enjoy reading. http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/ is a good site to begin with. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 650 Registered: 7-2004 |
sorry...that first link takes you to the website, but the book I was referring to is under the "Bible Challenge" in online books and is called "Days of Delusion-a Strange Bit of History"... | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 676 Registered: 1-2007 |
Welcome Steve to the forum. I was not raised sda but came into it later in life. I was raised as a child that no one is above writings of God so I was able to poo-phoo egw. Where I started was with the book of Galations and then Romans. The quest that got me started researching was the IJ when I was trying to tell someone about it. Suprise, suprise it does not exist no matter how hard you try to twist it. Then I had the question of does Jesus love me unconditionally or are there strings attached such as trying to work my way to being perfect? Learning his love is unconditional with no strings attached was a aha aha moment and that above any thing is what helped set me free. May God be with you as you study his words and ask the Holy Spirit to lift the veil of sda teachings from your eyes. Gail | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 349 Registered: 4-2007 |
Hi Steve, you've found a great site where you can unload and not get beat up! Before you start studying ANYTHING take Bb's advise and really investigate Ellen White. Until you conclude she has no validity what-so-ever you'll just end up confused. I personally concluded that just leaving was not the answer, I had to have a destination and my search for the 'destination' started with the study of the Reformation (which really helped in determining what kind of church to attend, theologically). That study put the IJ, Sabbath, diet.. in their proper perspective. I had to know what was RIGHT before I could determine what was wrong and/or non-essential. JOHN DOUGLAS | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi Steve, and welcome to the forum, I came to the conclusion that EGW was wrong on many things, unbiblical, and just plain weird! It was a process of big and little red flags along the way. Since I wasn't raised SDA, (I joined as a young adult), perhaps I was able to see things a bit more objectively, because I didn't have the baggage of SDA schools, family, friends and the formative years of church, in my DNA, so to speak. After moving to the middle of nowhere, I decided to start looking on the internet. I hadn't really been on the internet that much before, so I dove in. That was about 6 years ago, I guess. Well, studying about EGW and all of the early church history was fascinating!!!! It doesn't take long to see how wrong the whole thing was from the beginning. I still find it all very interesting, and upsetting at the same time. Upsetting because I, and so many others, were taught to believe such wrong things, described as "the truth". Then I moved to the Sabbath issue. That is the real linchpin, I think, for people to stay. So many say, "Well, I don't really believe, or read Ellen White...but what about the Sabbath?". So, I knew, once I had that settled, one way or the other, I could make a decision. I had already decided that if I was supposed to "keep the Sabbath", I would just do so at home, because SDA'ism was so wrong on so many things, I could never go back to that. Well, I discovered that the Sabbath was given to Israel, and the Sabbath was the sign of the Covenant made with them. That, in and of itself, answered a lot of questions for me. Once I settled in my mind, that Christians are not required to keep the Sabbath, Sabbath isn't the final big test, there aren't going to be Sunday laws (at least, I don't think so, at all), and, quite honestly, pretty much all of the SDA "distinctives", aren't Biblical for New Covenant Christians, I thought, "Wow! How in the world, did I, and so many others, ever believe this!". Sharing with family and friends can be tricky. Sometimes, it seems that the most common response is avoidance of talk of anything spiritual. Hopefully your family and friends are at least more open to having continuing conversations. | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 210 Registered: 2-2008 |
Listening to the NT on tape was really helpful. I could hear a whole letter read to me, probably similar to how the early church heard the scriptures before the printing press. Everything was in context with the rest of the letter, so there was no proof texting, where here a little, there a little could not be configured to mean something different than what the Bible actually says. Your know the book of John, or Romans can be read to you in about a half hour, and things that conflict with adventism, keep popping up, and I took the Bible at its word. Instead of doubting the Bible , I doubted the church. Once the false teachings are out of the way, the Bible more and more reinforces its message, and sda gets exposed for the non gospel it actually is. I like the KJV read by Alexander Scourby, He does such a good job at old english. He was a Shakespearian actor who originally produced these writings for the blind. I find that to be a testimony itself. I listen over, and over again as insights keep poppy up, and I hear things I never heard before. Sometimes I will listen to the same letter read over, and over again, because I get lazy to change tapes, but it is always refreshing, and I continue to get touched. Welcome, Chris | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1483 Registered: 11-2007  |
Welcome Steve!! I LOVE Chuck Missler too. He comes on the radio here and he blows me away. One smart cookie!! I would start with the Gospels - immerse yourself in Jesus - whatever else you study and do - I would do that first and foremost. So glad you are here!!! Sondra | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1208 Registered: 7-2007 |
Welcome Steve!  I was so certain that the SDA church was the ONE TRUE CHURCH, that I wasn't about to study to see if it wasn't! For me, it took someone's fasting and prayer and then finally pointing out one little thing (Michael the archangel - especially Daniel 10:13 where it says Michael is "one of the chief princes"); before I was willing to look into it and see if perhaps Ellen White was a false prophet. Then I read a testimony by someone who had found that Jesus didn't wait until 1844 to go into the Most Holy Place. (see Hebrews 6:19,20 - where it talks about Jesus entering the Presence behind the veil; Hebrews 9:12 & 25 - where it compares Jesus offering Himself to the high priest entering the Most Holy Place once a year; and Hebrews 10:12 - where it talks about Jesus sitting down "at the right hand of God." What place can be holier than where God is?!) At this point I was convinced that Ellen White was a false prophet, but I was still thinking that perhaps the SDA church was true. Then I found that Jesus brought in a whole new covenant (Hebrews 9:15-17), and I found that the old one was obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). I was surprised to find that the old covenant started 430 years after Abraham and was to continue until Christ (Galatians 3:17-19), and absolutely shocked to see what the old covenant was! (Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 5:2,3). Also I was surprised that the old covenant hadn't even been given to the Gentiles. (Romans 2:14) When I found all that out (not on my own, but by a series of miracles because of God's compassion and grace!), I was finally able to completely accept Jesus' sacrifice in my behalf. Before that, I thought part of it was up to me. Anyway, that's my story in a nutshell... Dianne | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 570 Registered: 12-2007 |
Welcome Steve :-) I was never too concerned about Ellen White (or so I thought.. didnt realize how she is so ingrained in all the teachings)but was sure the SDA was THE "true" church mostly because of the Sabbath. I didnt wake up to the truth until my oldest son joined a "Sunday church" I was frightened for HIM and started searching on the internet for information to try and convince my son that he was making a big mistake and that SDA was right. Like most SDA's even if our children wander out of the fold we hold out hope they will someday return to the "truth". When I decided to search the internet, the first place I came across was Mark Martins site. I was intrigued as he was a former SDA pastor.. so I had to hear his story and why he would leave. I downloaded his 3 part series "The Gospel and the Covenants" and took a long walk on the beach.. As I listened I kept thinking "this cant be right" even though he was quoting the Bible it didnt "fit" with what I had learned as a SDA. Some of the same verses SDA's used to teach doctrine I found were taken out of context as they will normally not study a whole book or even a whole chapter to get the true meanings of the writer, but take a verse here and there and try and fit them together to make them say what they want them to say.... Over the next few days I listened to the Gospel and Covenants sermons again, and this time looking up the Bible verses he was quoting... the REAL truth starting sinking in... then I found other sites that tell of all of the heresies in Adventism and I realized that Ellen White was a false "Prophet" and was not only a liar but a thief... she certainly did not live up to her own teachings,, and she stole 80% or more of her writings from other authors,, some of whom were not even Christian writers. I spent the next couple months feeling like I was in mourning... I felt angry, hurt and betrayed that the church I had trusted had been teaching me false doctrines for the past 40 years and I had raised my children teaching them those same things. I was mad, I was hurt, I felt completely stupid for having believed so many things for so long. The more I learn about what the Bible really teaches the more I wonder how in the world I could have ever believed some of those things. Somewhere in there I found this site :-) The fellowship and sharing of so many on here who have become my "church family" even though so many different religions are represented here we are all one in Christ and learn so much from one another. I am so thankful for this site and for all my brothers and sisters in Christ here. We do not always agree on everything,, sometimes a debate may get quite intense.... but just like a REAL family we work things out and come to an understanding or just agree to disagree on some points. I remember my first time going to a "Sunday church" with my son and his family,,, of course I was there to find fault :-/ In the church bulletin that day was something that I am sure now was there just for me and has become my very favorite quote. "When a man who is honestly mistaken learns truth, he will either quit being mistaken or quit being honest". I had been "honestly mistaken" for 40 + years... I asked God to teach me HIS truth. I still have a LOT to learn, but with the Lord leading, it is turning into quite a wonderful journey.:-) Francie / Skeeter | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 633 Registered: 11-2007 |
Welcome to the forum. Sorry about the Waco disaster and your loss from it. Wasn't there some kind of adventist connection with Waco? Anyway...where do you start? You just did. You are now free to grow in grace and not have anyone tell you what to believe and what not to believe. When they do that, like adventists do, it is like putting a ceiling on your spiritual growth. You can only get so high, in your growth and understanding, before hitting the ceiling. The good stuff is above the ceiling. Test everything Biblically. Years from now you will still be discovering things that you were taught are not in the Bible at all. It's an adventure for sure. Surfy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11016 Registered: 12-2003  |
Welcome, Stevew! I'm so glad you've joined us! I learned a few years ago that a student I had taught at Gem State Academy was also a victim in Waco. Koresh himself used to be a member of the SDA church in Honolulu when it was pastored by a friend of mine from academy and college in the 80's, I believe. He was becoming fanatical and divisive even then, and he was eventually disfellowshiped from that church. Where to start? Yes, this is a tough journey, but a very exciting one. The very first place to start, as others have already said, is with Jesus. If you haven't trusted Him with your life and accepted His substitutionary payment for your sin, deal with Him. You may need to deal with EGW before the gospel really makes sense to you...admitting she was a false prophet caused the Bible suddenly to become a different book. It is completely reliable--not negotiable and error-ridden like EGWs books. If you haven't read Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff, it would be good to read. Meantime, the back issues of Proclamation and the studies on the www.LifeAssuranceMinistries.org site are very good. Check them out! There is loss when we pursue truth...but God is faithful, and he leads us to Himself and to a whole new family in Jesus. That always sounded so "theoretical", but it is so amazingly true! With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6073 Registered: 9-2006  |
Hi Steve, I just wanted to make you feel welcome to the forum. I am a 'never been' so I will leave your questions to these others, and they can help you. River | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hi Steve, you Indicated "we" and I an assuming your wife is with you on deciding where the Lord wants you to be. Her support is very much a plus. I, too, want to welcome you to a group of wonderful God loving people. I mostly "lurk" that means I don't write much, I just read the thoughtful posts of others. I became an Adventist, with my wife, soon after we were married and left the church after over 40 years of dedicated service. Three of our four children are no longer members. One is a long term teacher and just can't give up her wonderful kids. Ellen and the false SDA doctrine of tithing were the driving forces that started my decent. Sabbath was the last hurdle and after reading "Sabbath in Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff and learning that the Old Covenant ceased at the Cross nailed any doubts about the necessity to observe the day. The yoke has been lifted and I serve Jesus anew. He is my loving Savior in whom I trust. I pray for you and yours, it is a wonderful life that awaits you. | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hi all. Thanks for your kind words of advice. It's really comforting to hear that others have been through the same stuff as we are facing. I forgot to mention that Robert Brinsmead is a relative of mine. Strangely I've never bothered to ask him his thoughts. I guess, like Dianne mentions above, we are so used to thinking that we (as SDA's) have 'the truth', why would we look anywhere else, (including the Bible!!) for proof of that. My brother in law has just returned from a mission trip to India, where he ministered to, and helped, local non-denominational church folk, and others. All my mother-in-law could talk about was why hadn't he been to SDA churches, and why he'd been to "sunday keeping" churches, and whether he'd been teaching them the truth... All a bit sad really... | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 453 Registered: 1-2006  |
Welcome Steve! I'll be praying for you. This forum was such a blessing when we were processing out of adventism! Bob | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 913 Registered: 3-2009 |
Welcome Steve. Hec | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1899 Registered: 4-2000  |
A hearty, FAF welcome, Steve! Your presence here reveals that God has initiated a rescue mission in your behalf, and the good news is that He has never failed in any mission to reach members of His wonderful family. Those who are intent upon accurate answers will no longer remain in a toxic-faith system. Our awesome and extravagant God loves sovereignly. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 307 Registered: 5-2009 |
A late welcome, Steve! A great adventure awaits you! Once I quit believing in EGW (saw evidence of lots of 'borrowing') I was able to read things in the Bible that I had never seen before and I am 4th gen.with exposure to years of Bible study (I thought!) Now I know reading it in context is a whole new world. Read Galatians many times, also Hebrews--then read 'em again! The whole NT is wonderful. The very first thing I noticed after my choosing the Bible over EGW was the Genesis verse that tells where Eve was when being tempted & eating the forbidden fruit--wait a minute! I never saw that before! | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2010 |
Nowisee, I'm not sure what you meant by that last comment re Eve in the garden....? | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2008  |
So glad you have begun your journey. I could yammer on for days about what I think is best but since you've been given plenty already I'll just pray the world will lead and guide you! I went to church with Ruth Ottman she survived but was one of the people charged. It tore her family apart. Koresh stood outside my church (the one on the campus of the Canadian conference) and was trying to get people to join I think I have very vague memories of him. When Waco happened I was still SDA and when people would question me about the SDA church I would reply "that's what happens when you don't know the truth"--I was so blind. Little did I know 16 months later I would become a Christian. Oops talking longer than I meant to bottom line wherever you start God will lead you into all truth. Don't be in a rush--I'm still absorbing info. I'll shut up and start praying now Enoch | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 317 Registered: 5-2009 |
Dear Stevew--Oh, sorry--most of us were brought up believing Eve took the fruit and ate it because she wandered away from Adam. I thought that was in the Bible, but in Genesis 3:6 (last part), it says, "She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it." The wandered-away thing came directly from EGW. It's not Biblical at all. | ||
| Stevew Registered user Username: Stevew Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2010 |
I thought I should get hold of a copy of the 28 Fundamentals from church to find out what I'm supposed to believe. So last weekend I approached the church librarian to see if they had a copy. The only one they had was the 27 Fundamentals. I asked if they had one on the 28 Fundamentals and he was surprised to hear that we are now "up to" 28! I thought that was funny. Strange also that the copy I've borrowed was last looked at by someone in our church 3 years ago! | ||
| Savedbygrace Registered user Username: Savedbygrace Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Steve from my husband and I in Tassie. I am a 3rd generation, my husband at least 4th generation SDA. We were actively involved in our local church for 10 years until last year when I brought my doubts out in the open. We were both becoming uncomfortable with the swing back to an emphsis on historical Adventist beliefs. We had always leaned towards more evangelical Adventism. I took a break from Kindie Sabbath School at the beginning of last year and was disturbed by what I heard when I joined the adult class study on the Spirit of Prophecy. I did not want to bring my children up into this. I started to do heaps of reading on line and challenged my husband that we either believe in E.G. White and the Investigative Judgement or we don't. My parents had left the church over these issues in the 80's, but I was the last of my family still trying to make Adventism work for me. At the same time I started studying what former adventists believe on the Sabbath as that is what had kept me in Adventism. Have you read the stories on this website? Greg Taylors Biblical Journey opened my eyes to a whole new perspective on the Sabbath - Jesus is my Sabbath Rest! My husband was brave enough to look at the evidence with me, and after lots of study and prayer we left the church 12 months ago. As to your question where to first? Go to the Lord, He will lead you into all truth. Pray, study, read the Bible for yourself and take a look at the evidence on Ellen White. Most of my husband's family and friends are still Adventists and he finds it tough at times, but we both experienced the call of the Lord on our hearts and there is no going back. We have found a new church family that meets in a local hall. Every Sunday we hang on every word, soaking in the gospel that we did not know we were missing out on! Look forward to hearing more of your journey. (Message edited by savedbygrace on June 03, 2010) |
